Episode 43 – You can also listen on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Google podcasts, and Amazon Music
About the Episode:
Bunny talks with Dr E.C.-Dukes and Ronnie Dukes of Dukes Comics. “DUKEScomics Art & Story Consulting is a creative consulting firm specializing in custom graphic novels and comic books.” They offer workshops, consulting and more! Find out what they are doing to help their community in southern New Mexico in this episode.
Links
DUKEScomics
I Love New Mexico blog page
Bunny’s website
I Love New Mexico Instagram
I Love New Mexico Facebook
Original Music by: Kene Terry
Featuring:
E.C & Ronnie Dukes
E.C. – Dukes: A Xicana writer, filmmaker, and educator, from Chaparral, New Mexico. E.C. VROOM (ed) her way through school and came out victorious with a Doctor of Philosophy degree in Rhetoric and Composition from the University of Texas at El Paso, a Master of Fine Arts degree in Film from Columbia University in the City of New York, and a Bachelor of Arts degree from the University of Minnesota – Twin Cities in Journalism and Chicano Studies and a minor in Theatre Arts. She has used all her acquired knowledge and skills in her comics, graphic novels, scripts, theater plays, academic scholarships, films, and teachings.
Ronnie Dukes: A Black artist from the south side of Chicago. Ronnie has been able to showcase his talents since his high school years with Gallery 37. After earning his degree in Computer Animation in Minneapolis, Ronnie relocated to Harlem in New York City where he began to paint and exhibit his artwork. But much like his partner, Ronnie aimed higher. POOF! The creation of DUKEScomics began and now Ronnie shows his talents through their comic books’ illustrations and by collaborating with several organizations such as: the Department of Tribal Empowerment Ysleta del Sur Pueblo, the Alzheimer’s Association West Texas Chapter, and the El Paso Museum of Art.
Episode Transcript
Bunny : (00:00)
Hi there. I’m Bunny Terry, and you’re listening to the I Love New Mexico podcast. Whether you’re a native new Mexican, who’s lived here for your entire life, or you’re just considering a visit, this episode is for you. Join us as we share a lot of New Mexico stories, talk about all things New Mexico, and include topics like what’s magical here, where you ought to visit, what’s happening, and the things you absolutely cannot miss in the land of Enchantment. We’re excited that you’re here and we can’t wait to show you what an amazing place New Mexico is, because let’s face it, I love New Mexico. We are gonna have some fun today. We, um, on the, I Love New Mexico podcast. Recently, we sent out, um, some queries to businesses in New Mexico saying, you guys are doing such cool things. We wanna highlight what you’re doing. And, um, Johanna and I both found Duke’s comics, which is a, um, I’m not even gonna try to tell you what it is because, um, because my guest who are Dr. Ec Dukes and Ronnie Dukes are, are gonna be much better explaining it. But these are folks who are, um, first of all, in one of my favorite places down Chaparral, New Mexico, which is where near Anthony, which is, um, where I spent some of my formative years while I was a college student at New Mexico State. But also, um, they’re doing some amazing things for, um, young, maybe not always young, but artists and creators in the Southwest. So, um, and what I said to both of you is that I could read your bios, um, but I know that I’m inadequate to the task because you’re doing so many things. So, um, I just wanna jump in, E.C Tell us first what you’re doing and who you are.
E.C : (02:05)
Great, thank you so much, Bunny Terry, and thank you for hosting us and having us today. So, yes, I’m born and raised in Chaparral, New Mexico. I went to Gadston High School right after high school. I got my bachelor’s degree at the University of Minnesota in the Twin Cities. Uh, thanks to a major scholarship and the support of my guidance counselor. If it wasn’t for her, I don’t think I would’ve ever gone to college. I’m first generation college grad in my family, have a large family, 10 brothers and sisters . And after my bachelor’s degree, I then went to New York City and I lived in Harlem where I got my Master of Fine Arts and film from Columbia University. And then I came back to El Paso, where I got my PhD in Rhetoric and Composition at the University of Texas in El Paso. And so I finished and got my PhD in 2020 during the pandemic. And so now I am, you know, out in the world and starting this business independent EC, here in New Mexico with my husband Ronnie Dukes. Uh, so my main profession is I’m a writer and I’m an author, and I’m currently writing comics and graphic novels.
Bunny : (03:22)
Ronnie, tell us who you are and then I want you to tell me together what you’re creating with Dukes Comics. Yeah,
Ronnie : (03:28)
Sure. So my name is Ronnie Dukes. I’m originally from Chicago, Illinois. Um, and I went to, uh, Minnesota for school, uh, to Minneapolis. I went, wanted to get away from Chicago, uh, to someplace even colder . And so that’s where I met EC on, uh, my, uh, second or so day of college. And I’ve been hitching my wagon to her star ever since. Um, and, uh, moved to, actually to New York with her when she went to grad school, and that’s when I started painting. I actually started painting, um, and had my first solo show at Columbia University, and I’ve had about 13 or so shows in the Manhattan area since. And, um, and, but I realized that not a lot of people were seeing the art, you know, like there was the patrons who would come in, but it wasn’t like everybody on the street or anything like that. And so I really wanted to do something that was a little bit more far reaching. And I wanted to have a portfolio that the entire world could see kind of, and that’s when, EC who’s been working on, uh, screenplays was actually, um, transitioning a screenplay into a potential graphic novel. And that’s when I figured that was actually a great entry into comics.
Bunny : (04:43)
That is so cool. I want our listeners because we have folks who listen from all over the world. Um, and I’m, you know, I’m proud to say we have, you know, we have some folks listening in Scotland and in Dubai and in most recently I saw somebody from Singapore, so I think e c you gotta tell people where about Chaparral, New Mexico, because you went from, you went from there to, um, college in where it’s freezing cold, and then you went, you lived in Harlem and then you came back to Chaparral New Mexico. So I think we’ve gotta give folks a little bit of a reference to what Chaparral is like.
E.C : (05:26)
Yes. And so growing up in Chaparral, um, I went to elementary school here. At the time, there was about maybe 7,000 people living in my colonial, uh, it’s an unincorporated town. Um, and then, so Chaparral at the time did not have a junior high or a high school. So I had to cross the, the gap, the Anthony Gap, which was about a 30, 45 minute bus ride in order to go to, to continue my studies to go to junior high and to go to high school. Um, to give you an idea of my high school, when I started my senior year, uh, the freshman class was about 2000 students, and the senior class was about 300 students. Um, and so Gadsden High School, uh, students came from all of these little colonials around the Anthony Chaparral area. And so we were all bused to this one school. But somewhere between freshmen and high school, uh, senior year, a lot of students, you know, would drop out, whether it’s because they go to work with their parents or, uh, we did have a lot of, you know, teenage pregnancies. Um, and so whatever other reasons that, you know, students leave. Um, so Chaparral is actually closer to El Paso, Texas, but it’s so small that the people here, we have to go shopping in El Paso to get our groceries or to, you know, seek higher ed. We also have the option of going to Las Cruces or Donna Ana County. Um, but regardless, it’s still considered what they say, a bedroom community, which is a lot of people. We sleep here, but we work and do everything else outside of our community because it’s such a small community. And so El Paso, Texas is right on the border of the Juez Mexico entry, so it’s on the US Mexico border in the southwestern United States.
Bunny : (07:23)
I mean, you are, you are from a tiny community. I mean, it’s like, I mean, I don’t know about, I don’t know where you were born, but I was born in Amarillo because where I grew up was on the eastern side of the state, and it was just closer and easier for my parents to go from there to Amarillo. So we’re, you know, New Mexico and Texas sort of have this, um, love hate relationship, but, but, um, we’re very near those cities in El Paso. I want people to know that. I think El Paso is a really interesting, vibrant community where there’s a lot going on, even though it’s right on the border with what is I think that’s important for our listeners to know who are not familiar with this part of the country.
E.C : (08:06)
Definitely. And the next closest town to El Paso would be, I would say, San Antonio, the next biggest city, and that’s about six to seven hours away. So really, El Paso and Chaparral were kind of isolated in, and when you look at the map, you know, New Mexico and Texas, especially Texas, on the very far west side, there’s this little small little arm . And that’s pretty much, we’re at the very edge of that. So we’re at the edge of Texas.
Bunny : (08:36)
Yes. So, and then you picked up the Chicago guy and brought him home with you. Um, I’m curious about that, Ronnie, I mean, did you, did you come to visit a few th times and think, wow, I always wanted to live in New Mexico, ?
Ronnie : (08:52)
You know, it’s funny, because I started first started visiting New New Mexico in probably like the nineties or so, and it really immediately seemed like a second home to me. Um, I visited, uh, the very first time was to come to Avitas Sister’s wedding, um, not too long after we met. And, um, I’ve been coming back every since and it just, it seemed like a natural progression to make this a home, not only a home, but home base, um, a place, a good place to start a business, um, a good place to, you know, like build our house, raise a family, things like things along those lines. Um, especially coming from Chicago and living in New York and, and Minnesota having been to all of those places, um, New Mexico really did seem like a magical place as far as a, a, a place that’s where, where all of the, the different stars crossed and just the right way to make like a really, uh, safe and good place to live.
Bunny : (09:49)
So tell me about, this is, and this is what I find exciting and magical about New Mexico, is that there are a lot of young people coming home. I mean, you guys could have stayed, you could have stayed in New York, coming home, doing things that are, that are really creative, especially for segments of the population that may be underserved, and that’s what it looks like you’re doing to me. So talk to me about that ac What, what’s sort of, what’s your mission and how are you accomplishing it? You guys can divide that up however you want.
E.C : (10:21)
Sure. I think one of our main missions is to promote literacy amongst our community and, uh, really throughout our state. And so our books, um, reach an audience that’s for ages 10 and up, and we are actually teaching artists, uh, we don’t have our own museum here in, in Chaparral, but the next closest museum is El Paso Museum of Art. And they’ve embraced us and brought us in as teaching artists. And so we teach story and art workshops, and we teach young people how to make their own comics so that they can start early, start journaling now, start gathering their ideas, and, uh, and then by the time they’re out of high school, they’re better prepared to start thinking about a professional, um, you know, life, uh, working in story and art and comics. And so we really wanna just promote literacy. We want to, um, inspire young people, especially people in our community, to, to tell them like, you can do this too. You know, nobody handed this to us. This is just something that we started to do because we enjoy it. It’s, it’s our passion, it’s what we got our educational training in. Um, and so we just wanna inspire. And, and also, um, and Ronnie, I’m sure we’ll talk more about this, but we want to also portray our community in our books, because a lot of times when you read comics, it’s always set in places like New York City or Los Angeles or Chicago, um, but you rarely have comics that are set here in the southwest and in New Mexico especially.
Ronnie : (12:03)
Mm-hmm. . Yeah. And, um, like kind of what you said earlier, bunny about, um, it’s a vibrant city. Speaking of El Paso, that was one of the things that we wanted to really, that I really wanted to show was the fact that the Southwest is a vibrant community. Um, and I really wanted to show it in the, in the tomorrow kind of way, um, to, so we can all see what the, the true potential of this area really is. Um, there’s so many great, uh, resources as far as the people, um, the, the land, things like that. And so I really wanted to show it as like a, a future, uh, version of what we all know and love of New Mexico. And, uh, also what Avita was saying about our community as well. Uh, we really wanted to show the community as we know it, um, because oftentimes when we see a lot of, uh, movies and TV shows, even video games, um, the Southwest New Mexico is, is not as accurate as it could be. Especially if you actually live here. Um, you know, I, I grew up in Chicago, and so like, I can pick all of the, the mistakes in national Lampoon’s Christmas, uh, family vacation because I’m from Chicago, you know, things like that. And so I think that the kids are, people from New Mexico would like to be able to do that as well with their own media. And I really wanted to be able to portray that. And also, um, all of our technology, we use a lot of technology in our, in our books, and all of it is things that are actually in research and development so that it represents an actual true world of tomorrow. Um, so that there’s a lot of, uh, things like soft screens, uh, where you can put like a screen on top of anything, um, and also, uh, sustainable power, um, where you need to strive for sustainable power. And that’s been a theme with us as well in trying to preserve the land and, um, and create different ways of living in order to create a equilibrium. Yeah.
Bunny : (14:03)
You do talk I mean, I keep hearing this theme over and over of the future. Um, can you, can you explain that a little better? I mean, what are you, tell me what you’re trying to do. I mean, is it utopian or is it realistic or make, make, help me understand that a little bit better.
Ronnie : (14:21)
Of course. Um, I grew up, you know, in the eighties and nineties, I grew up with a lot of dystopian future, uh, sci-fi. I think that dystopian future sci-fi has kind of laid the groundwork for a lot of things that are, um, uh, a challenge, let’s just say in our lives today. Um, because it provides a blueprint. And what we wanna do is provide a blueprint for a positive future. Um, there is a way, I think, to mix solar punk and cyberpunk together, solar punk meaning, um, having an equilibrium with the, the land, um, the earth and still developing, uh, technologically, um, cyberpunk meaning just like everything is, is based, you know, and if everything is information based and we can enhance our bodies with Cy Cybernetic and mechanics and things like that, I think that there’s a happy medium between those. Go ahead.
Bunny : (15:17)
I gotta tell you, those are two, I mean, I’m 62 years old. Those are two terms I’ve never heard solar, punk and cyberpunk, so I get so excited when I learned something new, but , so, so you’re saying that solar punk is living in harmony or at least talking about living in harmony with nature and the world and cyber is with technology. Am I oversimplifying that?
Ronnie : (15:44)
No, it’s, that’s pretty much it. I mean, cyber is more like, uh, imagine solar pump more like being at one with, reestablishing your relationship with nature and cyber pump is really reestablishing your relationship with yourself, um, as far as like enhancing parts of your body, um, enhancing your brain, um, also technology that you interact with, but it’s really about how your body is interacting with other technology and how it’s changing because of technology. So that’s more cyberpunk and solar punk is like, you know, like what is the best method for mining, um, solar energy, um, and how to, how to, how to send it out to the community, things like that. Um, so that’s where the, the two things. One is more corporate based and one is more community based.
Bunny : (16:31)
So tell me how this translates, because obviously, obviously we’re not gonna just talk for 15 minutes. Tell me how this translates to what you’re teaching, because I see that you’re doing workshops on a regular basis. Um, how does, how does all this work in like the real world, like five if, you know a 14 year old kid comes in and I, and I think, so I’m gonna just be, I’m gonna show how, out of touch, I mean I’m not out of touch because I have grandsons who are interested in graphic novels, but I’m sure we have n we have, um, listeners who have never seen a graphic novel. So I’d love easy for you to talk about what that is and, and how, how you sort of con how you teach people to do that. Yes. How, what these workshops are like.
E.C : (17:20)
So for example, we, um, did a workshop last summer with young people and we ended up creating an anthology of all of their comics and put it together and, and had it published. Um, but basically we gave them a prompt. We said, um, let’s think about our local environment and what are some, you know, possible, uh, new innovations that we could create to make people’s lives better. And so that the prompt that the students had, and they could pretty much be as creative as they wanted. So there were some students who talked about how to make life better for their own grandparents, for example. And then there was other students who talked about how to make, you know, water more clean and accessible. Um, you know, so they all kind of took it in in different ways depending on how it affected themselves. And so, for example, in our book, uh, Daisy and the Dukes of Choko, Choko Juez World Rally, um, our characters are interacting, you’ll see augmented reality, you know, which is a very near, um, technology that’s gonna already being used, um, but where it’s more common in our everyday lives. And then you’ll also see like holograms, you know, so for example, you know, you could have a phone conversation with someone, but actually see them in a hologram in sort of a 3d, um, model image. And, and so that’s another example. I know sometimes I have a hard time, um, helping my mom get onto Zoom cuz she has a Tuesday evening, uh, group that she belongs to. And so imagine if she didn’t have to log in and, you know, learn how to get onto Zoom. Imagine if there was some augmented reality or, or some sort of like a drone or some sort of technology where it just automatically just pops up and, and the people that she’s talking to are just right in front of her. And, and I don’t have to be there physically to help her work that technology. So it’s about, you know, figuring out ways to, uh, to innovate, to create, uh, technology that helps us live our lives better and easier. And also the, the other way that we do this at Duke’s Comics is we do graphic medicine, which is basically, um, illustrated, uh, stories about health. And so we work with nurses and researchers and we’re creating comics and motion comics about, um, diseases such as Alzheimer’s disease, um, HPV v vaccines, you know, different topics, uh, trauma informed care. And so these resources are to help to teach, you know, the everyday person about their own health. And cuz sometimes when we go to the doctor, we’ll get technical language that we may not understand or it’s just like 10 pages full of texts. And so we feel that using images makes it easier for the reader to, to first of all read about their own health and to really try to understand it and then to help them come to a decision about what they wanna do next. And so that’s how we incorporate it.
Bunny : (20:40)
That that is so cool. I mean, I, you guys may not know this, but I’m a stage four colon cancer survivor, and when people are in the midst of that sort of an experience, if, um, there, not only do you hear a lot of technical language that you don’t understand, but you’re in such a, you’re in such a trauma, you’re, you’re, things are so traumatic already. I mean, when I would go Johanna, who you’ve communicated with, who’s my producer, but also my daughter, she was my caregiver, but obviously she was very emotionally involved as well. And so we many times would take somebody along with us so that they could hear, you know, and somebody was taking notes all the time. But if, I mean, you’re creating a way for people to better understand what’s happening to them in the midst of this very emotional traumatic time that’s, I can’t wait to see that
E.C : (21:35)
. Definitely. And at the same time, we’re also teaching caregivers, especially how to deal with that stress and how to learn how to just relax and reduce their own stress levels because we know, you know, caregivers can also get sick because of caregiving. Right. And we are also, both Ronnie and I are caregivers, uh, ourselves. So that’s also another reason why we, uh, do this type of work cuz it’s something that is personal and that we ourselves have experience with.
Bunny : (22:07)
Well, I’m curious to hear, I mean, um, have you, um, and I apologize for not knowing this answer from my research, but I just had so much fun getting into all the videos that I watched all of your, all of your publicity. And we will just so our listeners know, we will post a link to your website and I want everybody to go to the media piece. But, um, Ronnie, I’d love to hear from you like what’s, you know, in the last six months in terms of what Duke’s comics is doing, what’s your favorite thing? What’s the coolest thing you think you’re accomplishing or, or creating? What’s, what’s closest to your heart?
Ronnie : (22:46)
Sure. Um, honestly, the most, uh, impactful thing that we’re doing right now is traveling the world, uh, taking New Mexico on the road with us. Uh, we just recently, we just recently came back from Sig Germany, um, at the sig, uh, leiger book, book fest, the, uh, sig book fest. And it had over 279,000 people and it was such a big and positive, great, uh, environment and a great experience. And the cool thing is it a lot of people, or, or some people actually were very familiar with New Mexico. They’ve even lived here because of the military. And so it was like they were just seeing somebody from back home. And so it was almost like they greeted us as if, you know, like, oh, my buddy from back home, you know, kind of thing. And so that was awesome and, and it, uh, it is also really great to see, uh, people from around the world, um, kind of gravitate towards our arts and gravitate towards our stories. People in Japan is just the same, uh, really, uh, kind of came to us with such a curiosity because they saw like the New Mexico references, the the Southwest. And so that that peaked their curiosity. And then once they heard about our stories, um, that was pretty much a, a game changer. That was, that was it. And so, um, that’s what I really liked the most is, is taking our story on the road and really feeling confident that we’re making a huge change as far as the way the world is actually seeing the Southwest and New Mexico. Uh, we do hope, uh, we’re, we’re definitely working on making this, uh, project Daisy and Chuco into a, um, an animation, uh, hopefully a feature animation if not a series and also a video game. Um, because we really wanted to bring the, uh, the gaming industry, um, kind of to this area as well, um, and really focus on how exciting it could possibly be.
Bunny : (24:45)
That’s so cool because I know that there is a generation that thinks all of the things you’re talking about are like, oh, this is, they don’t see it as positively. I, so I love hearing your story because you know, I know there are a bunch of, you know, 60 to 70 year old people who are like comic books and video games, but, but the, the impact is positive, right?
Ronnie : (25:07)
It is. It’s really positive. And one of the things that I would say to people who are, who are iffy, who have never really gotten into comics is comics are stories. Um, think of them as novels that just have pictures. Um, some comics are better than others. Um, but the great thing about comics and video games is it’s a real industry. And so by bringing the video game industry here, I mean that’s, uh, billions and billions of dollars. Um, that’s a billion, billion, billion dollar industry is what I’m trying to say. And, uh, video games are actually a singular video game is worth more than a singular film. Meaning like one video game can make more than the biggest film could because it’s a, it’s an engaging experience exactly. Like, um, films are in, in steep competition with the interactivity of video games. And I think that that’s kind of where the future really is. And, so if we can establish a foothold here in the southwest and in New Mexico, I think that it would really benefit our communities, especially here in southern New Mexico.
Bunny : (26:12)
That’s so exciting. Well, we are, um, I just had to, I just looked at my clock. I’m like, we are really running over, we’re just gonna make this a full episode. But tell me quickly, um, what, what is filling your heart and your creative spirit the most about what you’re doing?
E.C : (26:32)
Great. So one of the things that excites us the most is that we’re multilingual and our works are available in English, Spanish, German, and Japanese. Wow. And part of that is to be able to be more accessible to more people. So for example, I was really happy to be able to give my mom a copy of our graphic novel in Spanish and she was able to read it and understand what we’re doing. And my mom is 73 years old, she also has early Alzheimer’s. Um, so the thing I wanted to say about graphic novels and video games is that it improves cognitive skills. And, and so that’s why we especially, um, are involved in what we’re doing. And cuz I see my mom who’s 73 and struggles with technology and, but I see her reading our comics and in Spanish, and, and so it, it’s improving her reading, her brain, uh, functioning is improving because she is involved in the media that we produce, but also that others produce.
Bunny : (27:29)
That is, that’s pretty amazing. I mean, it’s, it’s, um, improving her skills while she’s diagnosed with Alzheimer’s. That’s amazing. That is so cool. So, um, so this is what I like least about this format is that our time is so limited, but can we talk again? I think it’d be really fun to, to get together like after the summer and you can tell me what your workshops did. So you have workshops this summer, right?
E.C : (27:58)
Yes. We have a story in art, uh, comics workshop at the El Paso Museum of Art for anyone between the ages of 10 to 18 mm-hmm. , and they can just call the museum or go to the website to ask about the workshop. And it’s gonna be in July at the end. Wow.
Bunny : (28:14)
Well, I’m dying to know what you do next. Oh, go ahead Ronnie. You got something?
Ronnie : (28:19)
I was gonna say also, we can give you an update. We’ll be, um, also in June at the American Library Association National Conference. So we’ll be in Chicago representing, uh, once again New Mexico, um, with Daisy and the Dukes, and a wonderful like world format, um, for librarians. So we hope to get, um, our story out to all of li all the librarians in the world as well.
Bunny : (28:42)
That’s so cool. I’m so envious. I wanna go to that, that so Umi and Ronnie Dukes, I, Dr. EI and Ronnie Dukes. I’m s this is so fun. And, um, and we’re gonna talk again because you you’re, you’re doing really I never, I’m just gonna be straight with you. I never would’ve thought about connecting comic books and literacy, but it makes all the sense in the world to me now. So thank you. Thank you for teaching me something new today.
E.C : (29:12)
Yes. Thank you for having us helping and sharing your story as well.
Bunny : (29:16)
Oh, this is, such a, life is good, right?
E.C : (29:21)
Yes.
Bunny : (29:22)
We’ll talk again. Thank you so.