Episode 105 – You can also listen on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Google podcasts, and Amazon Music
About the Episode
In this episode of the “I Love New Mexico” podcast, host Bunny Terry converses with historian and author Kevin McDevitt about the rich history of Cimarron, New Mexico, and the Saint James Hotel. Bunny introduces the historical significance of Cimarron, a key stop along the Santa Fe Trail. Kevin shares intriguing stories about the hotel’s original proprietor, Henry Lambert, and notable figures like Wyatt Earp who frequented the establishment. They also delve into the hotel’s haunted reputation, discussing ghostly encounters with spirits such as Mary Lambert. The episode blends tales of the Wild West with paranormal intrigue, highlighting New Mexico’s unique heritage.
Links
St. Jame Hotel
Kevin on PBS
Kevin’s Book: History of the St. James Hotel
Haunted Highways by Ralph Looney
I Love New Mexico blog page
Bunny’s website
I Love New Mexico Instagram
I Love New Mexico Facebook
Original Music by: Kene Terry
Featuring: Kevin McDevitt
A lifelong admirer of all things “old west” and being a former New Mexico lawman himself, it seems only natural to write on the subject. Hailing from Albuquerque, New Mexico, and spending time in Texas and Colorado, Kevin developed a deep love of the Southwest, its people, culture, and history. After receiving a copy of Haunted Highways (by Ralph Looney) from his uncle when he was young man, Kevin spent the next two years traveling all over New Mexico exploring these ghost towns every chance he had. It had a profound effect on his life. After an early retirement, Kevin could finally pursue his passion of writing about the Southwest. “If I could be anywhere it would be in an old library surrounded by old books doing research on a project or out in the field exploring some old town or place.” ~ Kevin
His first book, History of the St. James, Cimarron, New Mexico, is historical nonfiction.
Transcript
Bunny 00:00:00 Hi there, I’m Bunny Terry and you’re listening to the I Love New Mexico podcast. Whether you’re a native New Mexican who’s lived here for your entire life or you’re just considering a visit, this episode is for you. Join us as we share a lot of New Mexico stories, talk about all things New Mexico, and include topics like what’s magical here, where you ought to visit, what’s happening, and the things you absolutely cannot miss in the Land of Enchantment. We’re excited that you’re here, and we can’t wait to show you what an amazing place in New Mexico is. Because, let’s face it, I love New Mexico. We’re so excited on the I Love New Mexico podcast, because this week we get part two of Kevin McDevitt who last week we we got so into I was going to say into the weeds, but it doesn’t feel like we got into the weeds, but we we spent a lot of time talking about what a fascinating, place Cimarron was in the late 1800s. It’s still fascinating, but, Kevin wrote a book about the Saint James Hotel there, and we talked so much about Cimarron and that area that we didn’t even get to the main character of your book, Kevin.
Bunny 00:01:36 so tell folks, first of all, who you are, because we can’t assume that everybody’s listened to the prior episode last week, but also, what you’re fascinated with and what your book is about.
Kevin 00:01:49 Well, again, I’m Kevin McDevitt, I’m an author and historian, and I wrote the book The History of the Saint James Hotel, Cimarron, New Mexico. and Roy. My fascination was, really with the hotel itself. It’s just a it is, the hotel is just a fascinating piece of history that, Roy needs to be talked about more. You know, it’s it’s it’s, you know, Simeon’s on the line. It’s like, kind of like we mentioned last week. So Ron Roy’s on the lines with Tombstone in Dodge City, but it just doesn’t have the exposure. But it definitely has the past and the history between the characters and the the shootouts and the boothill and the whole nine yards. It’s just a fascinating place, but.
Bunny 00:02:36 And a lot of people, you know, Cimarron is such a small town and, a lot of people probably don’t even know, you know, it is on the Santa Fe Trail, which has its own storied history.
Bunny 00:02:54 On, on. I’m sorry, which branch of the Santa Fe Trail?
Kevin 00:02:57 It’s on the mountain. The mountain branch. Which literally went right in front of the hotel.
Bunny 00:03:03 And, Kevin, I think it’s worthwhile for us to talk just a minute about how the Santa Fe Trail affected history in the southwest, especially in New Mexico.
Kevin 00:03:14 Absolutely. What? Really? It opened up commerce to the southwest. That’s the the ultimate bottom line of what it did travel and commerce. But you’re finally we were able to, you know, bring goods back and forth between New Mexico and Independence, Missouri and the East. From there it was the in its independence, Missouri, was pretty much the terminus of it. And, you know, you, you know, again, Henry came across the Santa Fe Trail to get to, Cimarron. But it’s it was a huge part. And for, you know, gosh, the hotel opened in 1871. We found that through a record, it’s been documented. It was opened open 1872, but it’s actually over in 1871.
Kevin 00:03:57 We found that from a, basically a, receipt book the Henry had that showed the Maxwell Land Grant workers staying at the hotel. You know, when in 1888, 1871. So we kind of we’re going to reconnect history on that part of it. But that was, again, it was part of the, the Santa Fe Trail, the mountain branch, which was a little more, you know, the the mountain branch was a little more, usable for the fact that it had, more water. And you had Bent’s Fort. You had, oh. The, I’m bringing dad here. the gentleman that had the they basically owned the the, ranch home pass.
Bunny 00:04:44 Oh, right.
Kevin 00:04:45 Woo! Wooten.
Bunny 00:04:47 Yes. What can we not that will come to us.
Kevin 00:04:49 Yes. It’s his name is Wooten. And, he owned the past. pass. And so there was there was shelter and water kind of going on in the you get out in the other branch and there’s more hostiles out there, less water, a lot drier in things.
Kevin 00:05:03 So people kind of preferred to go on the mountain branch on that respect. But in doing so, he came down through Raton and through Cimarron and literally passed in front of Maxwell’s offices and his hacienda there, and mansion and right in front of the Saint James Hotel. So Henry got to be kind of known in that respect of having a great hotel with wonderful food. But the opposite side of that is he had a saloon that pretty wild, you know.
Bunny 00:05:32 Well, we’ll tell people first where how did he end up in New Mexico? Because that’s a fascinating story of its own when we’re talking about it now, it really is.
Kevin 00:05:41 So we’re talking about Henry Lambert. He’s the original proprietor of the Saint James Hotel, and he left France at a young age, kind of wanted to see the world. He got on a boat and he visited South America and several other places and kind of roamed around there. Ended up in the United States in the late 1850s. And he immediately kind of Philadelphia area. He nearly got them.
Kevin 00:06:06 And this is the fascinating part. He really got involved with the gentleman who ended up building the very first submarine for the US Navy. Yeah. Right. And, and Henry was a part of that. He’s he’s listed in the The Dock archives as an engineer on this, this project. So eventually in the the boat was called the propeller. And when the French were building it and the French engineer and eventually he was handed over to the US Navy and they renamed it the alligator. And then they towed it out to around the Cape Hatteras area. And unfortunately it’s sunk now. And and they have still have not found it. But Henry was.
Bunny 00:06:49 That’s why That’s why we’re not taught about that. Because it was, I mean, it’s important to know what our failures are, as well as excesses, but we weren’t taught that piece of history where we.
Kevin 00:07:02 You know, but again, they never found it. So it kind of went by the wayside. Henry ended up being a ship’s steward in the US Navy.
Kevin 00:07:10 for a while. He came back and got out of the Navy, and he was he stayed around the, City Point area of Virginia. And this story is important because that’s where Grant’s, headquarters was, and it’s where all the, the the major, supply depot was for the battle of the between the north and south on the Union side. President Lincoln also visited there multiple times with Grant along with General Warren. Now, here’s, you know, we’re we’re getting going to get into the sticky part here. Did you know one of the biggest rumors or Tales of Henry is he cooked in the white House for President Lincoln, and he or he cooked for him in some fashion. So I hate to be the, you know, the the mayor of bad news here, but there’s no evidence that he ever cooked for President Lincoln in the white House. And I’ve checked with Lincoln scholars, I’ve checked with Mary Lincoln scholars, I’ve talked to the white House. I’ve looked at their employment records from that era, and there’s no mention of Henry whatsoever, which is a bummer, but that’s just kind of the way it is.
Kevin 00:08:23 But here are my thoughts on that. When Henry kind of retired from the Navy, he settled in the Sidney Point area, and he opened a restaurant in the City Point area. So again, in the City Point Henry was there, Lincoln was there, Grant was there, general Warren was there. And these are all the folks that that Henry supposedly had relationships with. So there’s a very good scenario that we can make up. I think that in that City Point location, Henry did indeed contact and possibly even cook for on a contractual basis or something on that line for general Grant, Lincoln and General Warren. So we’ve got two books that kind of tell us a little bit about that. They’re both called History of New Mexico’s in One’s by Heinz in 1891 and ones by Anderson in 1907. And one mentions now they do little, biographical sketches in the in these histories so about people and normally they write to the people and ask them to tell them about them, and then they put it in a book.
Kevin 00:09:33 So most likely Henry was contacted on both those books and asked to give a summary of his life, basically. And they they put in the book. So one book says he cooked for during the Civil War, he cooked for General Warren. The other book says he cooked for general Grant, but again, nobody mentions President Lincoln. So we’re going to have to take that story, I think, with a grain of salt going forward.
Bunny 00:10:00 It’s a good story. It’s a good it’s a great show.
Kevin 00:10:02 And again, I think I truly do that in some form. He did cook for Lincoln, but it was in the City Point area, not in the white House.
Bunny 00:10:13 As a as a restaurateur perhaps.
Kevin 00:10:16 Very much so. Yes. Or. Yeah. Or again, Lincoln or, Grant contracted him to, you know, bring food and, set up things in his headquarters. And that’s where he met Lincoln, you know? So something happened.
Bunny 00:10:34 And then he comes to New Mexico.
Kevin 00:10:36 Then he.
Kevin 00:10:37 Yes. Then he gets on a, he marries his first wife. Molly, her name is an Elizabeth Step, and they get married. And then he brings her and her family to the Midwest, where she has relatives and he has gold fever. At this point, he heard about the strike in the Moreno Valley in New Mexico and wants to be a miner. And he leaves them in Missouri, and he travels by stage and wagon down the Santa Fe Trail to New Mexico.
Bunny 00:11:10 And what year do you think that was?
Kevin 00:11:12 This is around probably 1868. Okay. ERA give or give or take. In that era, we have tax records of him, in the Elizabethtown area where he settled after getting off the Santa Fe Trail. And he started out as a miner. And he worked in Elizabethtown. Correct, which is the first incorporated city in New Mexico, by the way?
Bunny 00:11:40 I didn’t know that. Wow. So so explain to folks. I mean, let’s let’s just assume people have a kind of cursory, idea of the geography of New Mexico.
Bunny 00:11:52 I mean, I know where Elizabethtown is only because when you’re going to Red River, you look over there and somebody did somebody created something that looks like a dragon in the valley, am I right? Am I crazy?
Kevin 00:12:04 I think so, I haven’t seen that in a while. But when you go from Cimarron and take the back way to Taos and you say you get to Angel fire, there you, the Elizabeth Towns just to the north of that. And there’s still a couple of small remnants of a few buildings. The old hotel is still there. The a wall of it anyway, but not much.
Bunny 00:12:27 And Kevin, I I’m sorry, but you just mentioned something that I didn’t know we was there. Gold in New Mexico. I thought we were only silver. I’m sure.
Kevin 00:12:36 Gold and silver. It was, and this and this is all on the the former land grant. Massive land grant. and then the English and Dutch speculators bought that and that, just that. That’s a whole episode on sell.
Kevin 00:12:50 That’s that. That’s just a whole whole different. Yeah, a whole different backgrounds. How they handled the land grant. They try to get the squatters off. And it was just right. He ended up being the Colfax County War. But, yes, there was. And Elizabethtown was the base of that. So the town was, if you know, where Mount Baldy is, is the literally the mountain with the bare top on it. and just to the kind of south west of that is Elizabethtown. And that was the encampment and the headquarters for all the miners that in the Moreno Valley that were, the prospecting at that time in quite I mean, there was something there was in its heyday, 18,000 people or something along that line. But yeah, it was a huge town. So anyway, Henry got there. He placed her mind for a while. He decided very quickly he didn’t care for that, but he also figured in his little miner that I can mine miners other way. So he ended up buying a of the e town, literally e town hotel, which was a log cabin structure, and he bought that for I think, $7,000.
Kevin 00:14:01 And he opened it up and he ran that for a couple of years till about 1870. Now in the meantime, he had brought his wife to the West and her mother in two brothers on, on the, on Mary Elizabeth step side. So you know, they you can see the IRS records. They paid taxes that year in 1868 69. They moved to Cimarron in 1970 or 1970, 1870, when they switched the county seat from Elizabethtown to Cimarron at that point. So Henry thought, you know, maybe I need to be where the the county is. You know, headquarters is.
Bunny 00:14:46 Because because Elizabethtown is sort of a dead end, right? I mean, if you’re going there, I mean, if you’re going, that’s where you’re going. There’s pretty much I mean, you’re up in the foothills. Yeah. Pretty.
Kevin 00:14:56 Pretty much. And it wasn’t it wasn’t close to the San Fe Trail where the Commerce was. So it was really a very smart, slick move on his part to move there.
Kevin 00:15:04 So he he moved there in in 70 and he, worked out a deal on this small building, which was the original building itself is a main building in the middle, a dining room on one side and private gambling rooms on the other side. And then you have the kitchen on the back is what the original building consisted of, and it’s still there in the hotel. And they just when they added to it in 1880, they just built around it and above it. But the the original edifice is, is still there, which I think is pretty cool. You know, that is so it is it’s well, the exact. Exactly. It’s where all the bolt holes are in the, the tin ceiling and stuff, which is, you know, fascinating in itself. So we really at that point, you know, Henry became a, a restaurant owner in a, in an entrepreneur. You know, he, he, he had the, the restaurant, he had the hotel and the added to it constantly, by the way.
Kevin 00:16:04 He just kept adding things to it and got bigger and bigger and bigger. But he also rented buggies for day trips. He had a meat market. He, gosh, he he had a stable. he got arrested a couple times for allowing gambling in his establishment, you know, stuff on that line. But in this era between 1870, in about 1875 76 was the heyday, really, of the violence in Cimarron, and that’s in Roy. He was sitting around the hotel, you know, so, you know, legend has it, 26 people were killed in the hotel. We can document 17, which is still a pretty good number, you know. Yeah. But is there, is there some that got lost with time? I think so, you know, so there’s a good chance that that more people were killed in there.
Bunny 00:17:00 It’s it’s sort of shocking, Kevin, that he wasn’t ever a casualty of any of that violence. I mean because was he did he remain neutral. That is that’s a.
Kevin 00:17:12 Great question and great insight. And the answer is no. He actually killed a man. gentleman by. Oh, yeah, a gentleman by the name of Archuleta. And he was getting rowdy with Henry. And Henry threw him into a, a, stone fireplace. And the guy died of massive headwinds, within the next couple of hours. Now, interestingly enough, in the original bass bass, saloon that they had there, they didn’t have a big, fancy wooden, ornate bar. It was a like they do. Exactly. That is that is not the original bar. The original bar was very simple, made of basic plywood, but it was covered in sheet metal. And Henry, the legend has it, Henry actually had a plate of steel placed inside the bar behind the front of it. So when the shooting started, he could duck down behind the bar and he wouldn’t get shot.
Bunny 00:18:12 That’s brilliant.
Kevin 00:18:14 Right? Isn’t that great?
Bunny 00:18:16 I mean, really? Yeah. I mean, it’s like a it’s like a scene from Silverado where the bartender would hide behind the bar.
Bunny 00:18:24 Yes.
Kevin 00:18:25 Perfect analogy. Yes. Great. Wow. And even more so, the back bar where you normally keep all your liquor bottles and things that was not set high up there in things. It was actually placed below the bar level. So when the shooting started, you didn’t lose liquor.
Bunny 00:18:43 Wow. I bet it’s a great story.
Kevin 00:18:46 I love nuts.
Bunny 00:18:47 That is so.
Kevin 00:18:48 Cool. It hasn’t it? Supposedly. Supposedly there was a sign behind the bar that said, gentlemen, please leave your guns at the bar. It’ll eliminate the cost of another burial, you know, kind of. Wow. So the original original bar was actually pretty fascinating. In 1907, Henry had two of his sons, I think Fred and Jean. tear down the the the original sheet metal, off the the the ceiling of the of the saloon area. And they recovered some 400 bullets from the wood underneath. And when they put there.
Bunny 00:19:29 Wow. Somebody was a really bad shot.
Kevin 00:19:31 Well, they were just in those days.
Kevin 00:19:32 They were only drinking some of that toast. Lightning or, you know, whatever the case may be. And they got pretty, animated, we’ll put it that way. But, back in those days.
Bunny 00:19:44 In terms of, I mean, when, when we’re talking, you know, and we obviously not everybody is as familiar with New Mexico history as as we are, especially for you. in terms of, you know, the famous names. I mean, I know Doc Holliday. No, wait. Hang on. Blackjack. Who who hung out there?
Kevin 00:20:08 Okay. That’s a great question. A lot, a lot of the, infamous people did come through there, and and that goes back to Henry for a minute. Let me just say this. It’s like there was a convergence in time in Henry was part of that. And I mean, think about this. He met Lincoln, he met Grant, he met, you know, Buffalo Bill. They said, well, I’m not going to say that because I can’t prove that one.
Kevin 00:20:34 Weider. Doc Holliday.
Bunny 00:20:39 I mean.
Kevin 00:20:40 They maybe we we we can’t again. We can’t, we can’t prove that one. you know, some some great, authors, you know, been the the author of Ben-Hur, governor of New Mexico. Was there, Remington was there, the artist? I mean, there’s just a whole plague of people, you know, that that it was just fascinating how many folks came through this little hotel in the middle of nowhere, you know? But they all came through there. So Wyatt Earp left tombstone. Tombstone. Earp left Dodge City. he came through the mountain ranch and stopped hotel. And apparently his, Henry’s second wife, Mary Davis, and, Josie, Wyatt’s, common law wife, became very good friends, and they corresponded back and forth for, for many years. And the last time I think she visited the hotel was in the 1940s, I think. But, it was again, just all kinds of folks came through there. The unfortunate part of that is we don’t have the original, ledger.
Kevin 00:21:59 We only have, which goes from the opening 1870 to about 1880 ish. But, you know, again, Clay, Allison, coal oil. Jimmy, you know, all these, these great Western characters, they all stayed there and they all hung out there, and they all drank there, and some of them even killed there. You know, Poncho Griego was there, you know, David and David. David. John Crockett, who was a, started out as a is kind of a cattle guy, but turned into a, you know, mini outlaw kind of thing. He hung out there. He killed three Buffalo Soldiers there. And then, you know, he’s got an entire story in himself. But he was all we can find out through genealogy. He was the great grand nephew of Davy Crockett, of the Alamo. And and.
Bunny 00:22:57 And you’ve written an article.
Kevin 00:22:58 About. Yeah, I’m I’m finishing that up. And it’s we’ve uncovered some really cool things about that. One of the cool stories about him talking about going to left field here.
Kevin 00:23:09 the cool stories about him is, supposedly one of the relatives came and took his headstone saying it wasn’t worthy, and he wanted to bring back a marble monument. Well, I finally got to the bottom of that. So that’s going to be in the in the article. But it’s a kind of a secret the moment. So I’m holding it close to the vest. But it’s absolutely fascinating how that how that happens.
Bunny 00:23:35 You’ll have to let us know when that article was about to come out. And then we’ll do another episode just about, oh, that’ll be so fun.
Kevin 00:23:42 Fascinating, fascinating. But but that’s the kind of folks that were there. and, you know, when you talk about a boothill in Cimarron has a true Boot Hills. Some people say they do, but they don’t. A Boot hill, technically, is where you have burials, where people die with their boots on, and that’s normally in a shootout of some type. And, you know, there’s, again, a couple of fascinating stories.
Kevin 00:24:09 There was a, a gentleman I can’t think of his name on the top of my head here that that, came in and he had stolen some horses from from the watchers area, and he came in, was trying to sell them at Henry’s saloon and barn. He had a stable, if you remember. And so the owners, Sam Tipton, came in from Watrous and saw him. And so he just started taking pot shots of the guy and eventually failed him over by the National Mansion entrance. So they brought back to the Saint James, threw him on the the, pool table, which I can imagine what that looked like. You know, as many people as they put on that thing. And he passed away. So they collected little money, paid a couple of locals to bury him. They gave him free towels, lightning for doing the chore. And they they start taking them up to the cemetery, which is south of town. If you remember, if you remember, there’s a little knoll going up to the to the level.
Kevin 00:25:12 The. In the old days, he hadn’t had that road that went around. They just basically went right up that no and right to the cemetery. And they tried to, get up the knoll and one of the wheels broke on the wagon, and so instead of carrying them to the cemetery, they just buried them right there on the side of the mountain. So right where those three crosses are up, there is a body buried just below that.
Bunny 00:25:33 Oh, yeah. Oh, the horse thief. What’s that of an alleged horse?
Kevin 00:25:41 Yes, yes, yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. Brutus was his last name. Brutus? So, you know, wave your hand at Mr. Brutus when you go in the cemetery, because he’s there on the side of the on the side of the road somewhere. It’d be fun to find that. But that’s that’s the kind of stuff that happened, you know.
Bunny 00:25:59 Well, so tell me, because I know that one of the first of all, for people who have never heard of the Saint James, which is would be hard if you listen to this podcast there this the Saint James is notorious for, having some restless spirits.
Bunny 00:26:17 I mean, that’s a really mild way to put it, but I know that the one room that seems to be, the. Well, no, no, no, there’s one room that’s locked. And I know that you’re working on a book that has to do with this, but, Mary Lambert’s room is considered to be one of the most haunted. Am I right? Am I saying that correctly?
Kevin 00:26:39 Absolutely correct.
Bunny 00:26:40 And is that the wife that he brought from Missouri?
Kevin 00:26:44 Yes, yes. So when I, when I interesting story. When I started, when I finished this book and it was it was published, I immediately got feedback. How come you didn’t do anything about the ghost in the book? And my answer was, it’s a history book, you know. Right. So and I really wasn’t, you know, the paranormal kind of guy, but there was such pressure in demand to people wanted to see something on the paranormal side of the hotel. So I decided to go ahead and do a book on it that goes to the Saint James Hotel.
Kevin 00:27:13 Go figure. And it’s coming out by the end of the year. And but it was actually end up being really fun to write. I interviewed witnesses and hotel staff and, paranormal teams had investigated there and psychics and mediums. And just first of all, they were all great folks. The paranormal community is incredibly welcoming and whatnot. So but end up right now. And yes, there’s two the two main ghosts are going to be Mary Lambert, which is the first wife. Now, you say Mary Lambert. Where did that come from? Her name was Anna Elizabeth Step. She went by nickname. She. She liked Molly and Mary, and she liked Molly the most. Molly was all. Her official documentation was the name Molly when her death certificate was named Molly. But the only two times I found the name Mary that she used was on one census in her headstone. So I really don’t have a solid story behind why. Why that is what it is. But she died in 1880. there’s nothing that says what she died of, but I’m thinking it was either pneumonia or, you know, the the long term.
Kevin 00:28:29 The lung disease. Consumption. Yes, is what I’m thinking. But she the the hotel was being going through its remodel in that day, and the Henry and her were living in the top floor, very south, wing last room, which is Mary’s room now in the, in the current day hotel. And she passed away there. And then, after that, Henry wanted a the fact that the the revision, the remodel was done and Henry wanted somebody to help be kind of a host for the hotel. So eventually, a year or so later, he married, Mary Elizabeth Davis, and that’s his second wife. And that’s who he had his, his sons with and instructor on that line. So again, yes. So going back. So Mary’s one ghost. She’s in the same room, down at the end of the hall. And just a sweet lady, small, inquisitive. she’ll stand before the bed, you know, Victorian garb here in the barn.
Bunny 00:29:35 and people see.
Kevin 00:29:36 Yes. She she once in a blue moon, she’ll even talk to people.
Kevin 00:29:39 But normally she just watch her presence be known. But more than one. I talked it over a hundred stories, and the majority of them are about that room. And she’ll just be at the bed, and once in a while she’ll play with your toes or something. But she just interactive and you’re right. And the quiet kind of stuff. the other one is room 18. That’s the one that’s locked and that’s TJ Lambert’s room.
Bunny 00:30:03 And and is that his son?
Kevin 00:30:05 Is that it’s a cowboy, that there’s several stories that he he won the the hotel in a poker game and then he was killed. And his staying there because of revenge and stuff. On that line, we did a little bit in hint of story into his story, more, in the book, the ghost book, which is which is kind of fascinating, but he’s he’s the one who occupies room 18. And you just I think the long story short is he wants to be left alone and don’t bother him. And if you jack with him, something most likely is going to happen, good or bad.
Kevin 00:30:41 And there’s been some bad stuff that’s happened, so.
Bunny 00:30:44 Wow. Wow. So, you know, here we are again at Out of Time. But, I’m I want folks to know that you there is a, an interview that you did with PBS that will provide a link to where you do talk about the ghost piece. I think it’d be fun to get back together around around Halloween and talk about the interviews Views that you had with folks there, but I, I just first of all, I want people to find your book. So we’ll put a, we’ll have a link to that. But I also, you know, this is this is, like, as we talked about last time, New Mexico was such an anomaly at that time because we were still, lacking in law enforcement, organized law enforcement. And there was some a bit of corruption going on, just a bit just to, you know, I mean, if you ever get a chance to pick up a book on the Santa Fe ring, I, I would tell our listeners, you got it.
Bunny 00:31:57 You just can’t believe how things were in New Mexico. I mean, you hear about, as you said, you hear about tombstone, you hear about Dodge City, you hear about, how things were in Montana and Wyoming, but this really was the Wild West. I mean, I can’t imagine what it was like to be a citizen in Cimarron in the late 1800s.
Kevin 00:32:23 Exactly. And it got so bad in the 1875 era that they had to call troops in from Fort Union to help the civil law enforcement gain control. Again, it was that bad.
Bunny 00:32:36 And I think the most one of the most fascinating things that’s happened, Kevin, is that you’ve found all these primary documents. I mean, that’s the cool thing about history for folks who don’t love history, like, but but if you think about the way that we discover it, it’s, it’s it’s old fashioned sleuthing. It isn’t it.
Kevin 00:32:58 Which I enjoy.
Bunny 00:32:59 That’s the I love it, I love it, it’s so cool. So, you’re in the middle of finishing the article on Crockett, right? Finishing the ghost book.
Bunny 00:33:13 Is that almost done? It is.
Kevin 00:33:14 It’s it’s it’s done. It’s just going back forth. The editor and.
Bunny 00:33:18 Okay, so we’re going to talk.
Bunny 00:33:20 About that in October. That’d be awesome. but what I want folks to do is go and spend a weekend at the Saint James. Yes. And let us know what your experience was. Right?
Kevin 00:33:30 Absolutely, absolutely. Please do. And we have a Facebook page and history of the Saint James Hotel. And okay, if you want to follow that, that’d be great. But we put up all kinds of stories and stuff on that. And as the As The Ghost Book gets ready for publication, we’ll touch base on those kind of paranormal things more. But right now, some more just just hints in history about the hotel.
Bunny 00:33:52 Right now we will too. So keep us posted on the progress there. And, and then you and I, let’s meet some time for a drink at the bar. Sounds great.
Kevin 00:34:03 We all do a podcast.
Bunny 00:34:05 Yes.
Bunny 00:34:06 Yeah, we’ll do it right there. All right. Thank you so much for coming back. This is.
Kevin 00:34:11 Fun. My pleasure. Thank you.
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