I Love New Mexico

Episode 108– You can also listen on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Google podcasts, and Amazon Music

About the Episode

In this episode of the “I Love New Mexico” podcast, host Bunny Terry converses with artist Nocona Burgess. Nocona, known for his modern depictions of indigenous people, shares his artistic journey and the influence of his Comanche heritage, particularly his connection to the notable leader Quanah Parker. The discussion covers Nicole’s disciplined creative process, his exploration of color theory, and the historical significance of his work. Additionally, Nocona talks about his radio show “The Business of Art,” which delves into the business aspects of the creative industry, and his involvement in community events and charitable initiatives.

Links

Nocona’s website
the Business of Art

I Love New Mexico blog page
Bunny’s website
I Love New Mexico Instagram
I Love New Mexico Facebook
Original Music by: Kene Terry

Nocona Burgess Biography

Transcript

Bunny 00:00:01  Hi there. I’m Bunny Terry and I’m the host of the I Love New Mexico podcast. We talk about everything here. There are no boundaries. We talk to people who are from all corners of the state, people who are chefs, who are tourists, who are artists, who are Chamber of Commerce executives, and who are from ranch families that have been here for hundreds of years. New Mexico is enchanting, and it’s interesting. And I can’t believe I get to do this job. New Mexico is so amazing, and I invite you to come along for the ride on the I Love of New Mexico podcast. Thanks for being here. Today’s a special day for me on the I Love New Mexico podcast, because I get to talk to somebody whose work I not only admire, but I consider a friend. So today our guest is Nocona Burgess, who is certainly a household name, I think, in New Mexico, certainly in Santa Fe. And before we begin, Nocona, I’m going to read a little bit of your bio.

Bunny 00:01:13  I can’t imagine there aren’t people who don’t know your work already, but I want before we begin our conversation, I want people to know who you are. How does that sound? Okay, okay. So for those of you who don’t know Nocona I’m reading directly from his website because it’s so eloquent and it’s so perfect. But, Nocona Burgess presents strikingly modern depictions of indigenous men and women from various tribal nations of North America. His paintings mixed careful research, first hand knowledge and raw passion. That’s one of the one of the best things about your paintings. Nocona, it says here that you explore the cultural context, life story and identity of each sitter You’re a member of the Comanche Nation of Oklahoma, the son of a former tribal chief and the great great grandson of one of the most revered Native American leaders, Chief Quanah Parker. I, there’s a lot more folks can find that on the website, but, those are all really fascinating facts. But I’m curious to know. And you and I talked about this a little bit at Indian Market.

Bunny 00:02:24  How did painting and art become your personal passion?

Nocona Burgess 00:02:31  Well, you know, I always kind of grew up around art. You know, in native families, there’s always art around, you know, whether you’re considered an artist or not. I mean, like my dad’s grandmother who raised him, my great grandmother, she was blind and she did beadwork. And so she was able to separate the colors with pill jars. So different size pill jars. And she would use, like a cafeteria tray and put the different colors in each, each section. and so she she could see it in her head and she made it. And I still have some medallions that she had made. And so she was a bead worker. my mom’s mom was a quilt maker, you know, always made, like, quilts. And, she kind of, kind of got famous or notoriety from, like, her, little Indian men and women quilts were kind of like outlines of men with braids and women and like, little dresses.

Nocona Burgess 00:03:22  So these little patterns on these quilts in Oklahoma. And then my grandfather, was a painter. he was an artist. He was, you know, and so he just kind of did, paintings here and there. And then my dad’s an artist. even though he kind of went to the administration side, you know, my dad’s, like, super smart to master’s degrees and a PhD, but he went to the kind of the administration side. He was always kind of the principal and the dean and the president of things. But, you know, people always ask him how come he didn’t be an artist? He’s like, well, I was a young father and I had mouths to feed so he could really read the dice. And then my my mom always says that, you know, she wasn’t an artist, but she’s done little art things here and there throughout my life. So just kind of being around that, you know, and I actually started out in school, I went to University of Oklahoma for architecture.

Nocona Burgess 00:04:12  And because, you know, at the time it just at 18, who do you know that’s an artist or it was always a struggle. And so I kind of went in a different direction and I guess over the years kind of this beckoning to come back and, and do it. And so I, so I ended up, I took a short year at Iaia, but I kind of really developed my wings at, University of New Mexico under Nick Abdullah there, in painting. And then I ended up finishing a BFA at the University of Science and Arts in Oklahoma. I just went back to Oklahoma for a couple of years to finish that up, and then I came immediately back. I had a little townhouse here in Santa Fe, and so I just kind of decided, you know, I was going to paint. I was a little bit older. It probably really didn’t get going until I was 28, 29. And so and then it just kind of went from there. And, you know, I’ve always had the passion.

Nocona Burgess 00:05:05  I’ve always loved it. and then somewhere along the way, I’ve always had a big passion for history, being kind of from a historical significant family, I think has always made me read and study, and my grandfather and my parents always encouraged me to read. So, history was what I read. And then somewhere along the way, you know, history crashed into my painting. And then, you know, here comes, you know, my career so well.

Bunny 00:05:30  And describe to somebody because, we have a lot of listeners, we have listeners from around the world. And, and we’re going to, we will certainly provide links in, in this podcast right now in the notes in the show notes, there are links to Conor’s work. But, it’s your your style is very specific. Pacific. I mean, to me, if I see a painting somewhere in town, I know that it’s it’s one of yours. So I’m curious how you personally describe your style. I mean, it’s not it’s it’s not abstract.

Bunny 00:06:10  It’s not realism, but it’s this great mix. It’s a very contemporary look to me. I’m curious to know how you.

Nocona Burgess 00:06:18  Yeah. You know, I use historical photographs as references, you know, and these are real people. They’re not stylized or kind of romanticized. You know, these are real human beings with real stories. So that’s my first step, is I used, you know, historical photographs and I paint them. But I use a lot of contemporary movement and style. And I think my architecture background influence is kind of the hard edges. some people said it’s really kind of a graphic, you know, look to them because they’re really tight. They’re really sharp. And, and then some people have said, pop, but I don’t really see a pop aspect of it. I think it’s only because they don’t really know, kind of, you know, what it’s all about, but it’s kind of hard. I mean, I have degrees in art, but I can’t, you know, kind of give it like an ism or an ist.

Nocona Burgess 00:07:01  It’s kind of like, oh, but, but yeah, I mean, and it’s not something I maybe consciously did. I didn’t say, okay, I’m going to separate myself and do this, this and this. It’s just something that kind of developed over the years, you know, from influences from like, T.C. Cannon and James Weekes and Nathan Oliver to, John Nieto and all kind of just, you know, because as you, as you’re kind of growing and learning and kind of putting together your own visual language, you kind of pull from all these things, you know, because it’s kind of like, you know, there was no Stevie Ray Vaughan without Albert King or Jimi Hendrix or, you know, there’s no Aerosmith without the Rolling Stones. So it’s kind of it’s kind of some of that. It’s just kind of picking from each and then and then one day it’s yours. And like you said, I really love the fact that people can see it and they know who it is. I think that really happened to me.

Nocona Burgess 00:07:47  In 2006. I was on the cover of the Santa Fe and Magazine, and it didn’t have my name or anything. I just had the image and everybody was like, oh, we knew exactly whose artwork that it was. And it really felt good that I kind of pulled away from my influences. You know? They’re still there and people still recognize it, and I don’t hide from it, but it’s kind of like, okay, this is me, this is my language, this is my visual language. And I think from then it’s really kind of taken off so well.

Bunny 00:08:12  And your use of color is, to me and I’m and I certainly I’m not an artist, nor am I an art critic, but you’ve done a really great job of using some surprising color that still looks like the earth and the sky. I mean, I don’t know how to describe that, but.

Nocona Burgess 00:08:30  For a little while I taught color theory. So we talked about breaking down colors and what colors really are that really they’re all just red, blue, yellow, black and white.

Nocona Burgess 00:08:38  And so but you know, I really play with color. I remember when I first started, you know, a lot of people always said, oh, you have great colors. And I thought, well, this is something nice to say because maybe the paintings weren’t great, but the colors were nice. But but, you know, over the years, being in shows and showing with other artists and kind of seeing how my color is separate. yeah, I understand that now because I love color. I love real life color, you know, and a lot of times I’m not taking it straight out of the tube. I’m kind of toning it down with a little bit of neutral gray or some, burnt umber or, like, I use a lot of paint. I always say paint grays, my crack. I can’t get enough of it. And so I kind of use colors to just kind of bring it down a notch, even though it’s like an orange or a teal or something like that. I’ve always kind of just brought it down a notch a little bit, and it’s kind of like tuning down your guitar and to just like a lower, level.

Nocona Burgess 00:09:30  And so it just kind of, it kind of plays really well. And I it’s been successful. I’ve like I said, I’ve gotten a lot of recognition about the color palette, and I just really mix. I mix a lot of colors. I just and I experiment with a lot of colors, and I play with kind of color theories of like, complementary colors, but then I’ll add like a little gray into it or something like that. So. So I’m always messing around in there with colors, and sometimes I get stuck because I’ll make a color and it’s hard to kind of if I need more of it. You got to kind of re, you know, reverse engineer it and kind of make that color again. So sometimes, like, I can get caught so.

Bunny 00:10:06  Well, I want folks who are not familiar to understand what your history is. I tell our listeners who Quanah Parker was. I mean, I’m, both my husband and I are huge history buffs. So that when I learned that you were a direct descendant, that was exciting to me.

Bunny 00:10:21  But. But I probably have somebody listening in Dubai who’s like, well, what’s the big deal? Right? Right. Yeah. Let’s hear about I mean, first there’s the Comanche peace, and then there’s the Quanah Parker piece. That’s really fascinating, right?

Nocona Burgess 00:10:33  So, you know, the Comanches were nomadic raiders. They kind of conquered the Southern Plains. They moved from Idaho down and, you know, became Comanches when they got the horses here in New Mexico. Because the word Comanche is Comanche, and it’s a Ute word that means those that fight us all the time. So about 1620, 16, 30, we got the horse start.

Bunny 00:10:53  Wait, say that again. Those who fight us all the time is that. Yeah. Yeah.

Nocona Burgess 00:10:58  So yeah. So they earned that name. And so with, Comanche. then the, Spaniards got Ahold of it came Comanche. And so they, you know, so they were hell raisers and raiders and conquerors and, you know, all these kind of wonderful things.

Nocona Burgess 00:11:11  And so they they pushed it through here. And so, you know, so they really kind of took over about 1700. And so you’re talking from 1620 to probably 1880, they had to run, you know, so 260 year run of, you know, being, the rulers of the Southern Plains, basically. So, so Quanah Parker was kind of a tail end of that. And his mom was a white captive. She was captured by the Comanches when she was nine. She was raised Comanche. She grew up to marry a Comanche chief named no. Connie Nicanor, who was his father. and she had three children. And they, the whites or the Texans recaptured her when she when Quanah was about 12 and she never came back. They took her and they took his younger sister. her name was Prairie Flower. So they took her, and they never, you know, they never came back. So Quanah and his younger brother Pecos and their father was was out there. Mother, you know, for that.

Nocona Burgess 00:12:13  So. So Quanah kind of rose up being a warrior, a leader. I’m sure he learned from his father. Because just because your father was a chief didn’t necessarily make you a chief. It’s very democratic. People followed you if you were going to provide, protect and lead. And so Quanah was a warrior. Quanah was a chief. he he fought against, Texas. He fought against the United States. He was considered an enemy of the state. And then finally, after, you know, wars and all this stuff, the Comanche had to surrender, to Fort Sill and Fort Sill, Oklahoma, in about 1875 was the beginning. And they all kind of trickled in slowly. And so the Comanches didn’t have one big chief, but once they kind of put everybody on the reservation and all the Comanches were together, his band of Comanches, they were, had probably had the most. So even if they voted, you know, they would probably elect him as chief. But the government kind of appointed him the overall chief.

Nocona Burgess 00:13:08  he was a very good leader. And he, you know, he had vision of the future and they probably liked him the best because he was half white. So, you know, but anyway, he was, you know, but he was all Comanche. I mean, he didn’t see himself as white. I mean, later on, he kind of knew and kind of used that to kind of gain some political favor. But he, you know, he kind of led him in, you know, he led him into education, ranching and did all these things. And, so and he was a judge. And so he did everything. I mean, he was he was a chief. He was a warrior. He was a a diplomat. he fought for rights for native people. he was in DC a lot. And so he he, he kind of led a very interesting life. You know, there’s a few books about him. There’s one very bad book called Empire of the Summer, but it’s not such a great read.

Nocona Burgess 00:13:53  But I think I’ve read that. Yeah, yeah, we’re kind of at war with those guys. You’re trying to make a movie out of it, but, And but anyway, he just, you know, he had a fascinating life, and I felt like, he really did a lot, you know, for his people and, and and also, like I said, kind of lead and telling, you know, people, if you want us to live this life, you know, this white man’s life, well, then we need education. We need, you know, all these things. And so he went from being, you know, this kind of warrior against the United States to an advocate for this education and learning and, and kind of leading us into the future.

Bunny 00:14:27  Well, what an advantage, for the Comanches at that point in time, as opposed to perhaps the way it was done here, you know, like when the Indian school was created and, some of some of the local tribes and pueblos, fell under that.

Bunny 00:14:46  Without an advocate like that, am I am I am I, am I correct? Is that what.

Nocona Burgess 00:14:51  All all tribes did? I mean, even even there in Oklahoma, the Fort Sill Indian School, you know, kids were getting taken away from their families and put into these boarding schools. And, and, you know, the Comanche didn’t escape that. You know, they all had to go eventually at some point, you know? So but in the beginning, you know, it was meant. Well. I know they worked with the Quakers about having schools on the reservation in the beginning period. But at some point, really kind of after this time, well, even before they were doing it in other places, but even after its time, they were they were removing children, you know, the Comanches didn’t escape that fate. And so their children were taken away from them and shipped off to, you know, all over the place to, you know, Pennsylvania, you know, some of them stayed there at the Fort Sill Indian School.

Nocona Burgess 00:15:36  And so, you know, most of my family went to boarding schools. And so, yeah, so they didn’t they didn’t escape that fate. So everybody kind of went through it. So it’s just kind of the reality at the time.

Bunny 00:15:46  I’m really I’m fascinated. So was there ever a reunion of any sort with his mother and his sister?

Nocona Burgess 00:15:54  No. They both died. So they. Yeah. They died. the mom just kind of just kind of gave up, you know? The baby got sick. I’m not for sure what she had. If it was smallpox or cholera or something. But the baby got sick and she died, and then after that, they just weren’t going to let her. Let her go. They just to prove a point, you know, they didn’t want her back with the Comanches. And so she just kind of after the baby died, she just kind of gave up. You know, some say she just starved to death or she died of a broken heart. And so.

Nocona Burgess 00:16:22  Yeah, so they never they never got back together. But he did, when she, passed, at some point, he moved her grave back to Oklahoma with him. And then they’re buried together in Fort Sill, Oklahoma, what they call the chief’s mound. So actually, they moved together. So they, they moved her eventually. And then, and my grandfather was actually part when they reburied Quanah next to his mom, you know, back in the 50s. And so that was that was a good thing that happened then. So at least they’re, you know, resting together.

Bunny 00:16:53  So you are incredibly prolific. It seems to me. I’m I know that there are artists out there who are thinking, how do you how do you create this body of work? Because you seem to me to be really, focused and and you create a lot. You create all day long, every day. Seems like. How does that work?

Nocona Burgess 00:17:14  I just clock in, you know, when I taught at, you know, at the college or when I teach and when I do these business of work, art, I do a lot of business of art workshops.

Nocona Burgess 00:17:24  I taught the business of art at the college level. But I also do like these, artist programs and workshops. And I talk about production rate. You know, I teach like, you got to know your production rate. Can you carry a gallery? Can you carry two galleries can carry three. Can you do four shows a year? Can you do one show a year? So you really have to know your production rate. You got to know how to clock in and you do. And I use the philosophy. I believe it was Chuck close. He said, amateurs wait for inspiration. The rest of us go to work every day. And it’s true. You know, I kind of joke that, you know, when I’m going in for a root canal, I’m hoping that my, dentist isn’t waiting for inspiration, that he’s just ready to clock in the work. So. So I do the same thing. You know, there are some days where it’s really work, and there’s some days I’m just listening to great music and, drinking some Cokes and having a good time.

Nocona Burgess 00:18:07  But I just get in and work, and that’s what you have to do. I mean, I’ve got a pretty good schedule. I get up, take my son to school in the morning, drop him off, and I kind of get back around the house about 830, maybe get caffeinated, watch a little bit of news or read. And then I get in the studio and I’m in there, you know, from 9:00, and he doesn’t get out of practice till 530, you know. So there’s some days I can just put in good long days, days where he goes to jujitsu. He’s gone till eight, so I can put in a good, you know, 12 hour a day. And, and I really try to, you know, get my work in and also make family time because we have cross cross-country and track and jujitsu and all that kind of stuff. But it’s just, you know, you’d be surprised. And I tell artists that you’d be surprised when you just get in and work.

Nocona Burgess 00:18:50  You know, you get in a lot of work and eight hours and nine hours, and if you’re not kind of messing around or you’re not doing all this other stuff, and I have to remind family and friends too, that it’s, you know, I’m in the office, I’m at the office, you know, so when when the son says, hey, daddy, can you bring my shoes over? Because I forgot my track shoes. You know, you’re like, I’m in. I’m in the office. It’s no different. You know, I can take a lunch break or. And then I have to remind people to that I work with, you know, committees and stuff, that these are my office hours, and I really try to keep to it, stick to it. And that’s just the trick, you know, I just get in and work and, that’s how I’ve always done it, you know? And I work pretty quickly. I go straight to the canvas with the paintbrush, you know, I mean, I’ve been doing it so long that I’ve kind of cut out some, you know, things in the middle, some of the little drawing and all the little things like that.

Nocona Burgess 00:19:42  So it’s just it’s just becoming more efficient. You know, being a pro and and I think as the more you paint stuff like that, your efficiency increases. And so it’s just a matter of clocking in and having really good efficiency.

Bunny 00:19:54  I’ve been reading again for about the 42nd time, The War of Art by Steven Pressfield. I don’t know if you ever read that, but he talks about how, how resistance is the the biggest enemy of art because and he, you know, he’s talking about writing and creating and all sorts of media, even creating, business. And he says, if he said we have a million things in the world that can talk us out of sitting our ass in the chair, I’m sorry. I’m sure you’re not sitting down all the time, but it’s it’s really the the commitment and the time. And I know that’s how it is for me. If I don’t have an hour carved out every morning where I write and I create something, Then, then I can’t. It’s not a matter of motivation.

Bunny 00:20:42  It’s a matter of just carving out the time and doing it. And you do it. You’re a professional. You do it all day, every day. And, I think that’s. You’re doing a podcast now, aren’t you? For artists, that’s somewhat about the business of art.

Nocona Burgess 00:21:00  It’s a it’s a radio show at Kcfr, but it’s also kind of a podcast. They’ll record it and people can listen to it whenever they want. yeah. It’s called The Business of Art. And I bring in a lot of artists, artists, actors, poets, and we just kind of talk about the business side, you know? How did you get here? What made you decide to do this? What made you take the lead? What are some of the things that propelled your career? ups and downs, the business side of it and not necessarily the art so much. You know, what you’re writing about, what you’re painting about, but all the other stuff, because the premise of the show is like, you know, people come to the reading, the poetry reading, and your eyes closed and you’re reading the finished product, or you’re at the gallery on Friday night and you’re dressed in your nice clothes and the finished product is on the wall.

Nocona Burgess 00:21:46  But what about all the other stuff that it takes, to, to get to that point? You know, just, just, even the years, the years ahead, you know, what did it take? Well, you know, some of the good galleries and bad galleries and great shows and bad shows and, oh, I almost quit. And, or I was a graphic designer for 25 years, and I walked away from it to be a fine art painter, you know? So it’s kind of all the other stuff. It’s kind of pulling back the curtain so people can kind of see, you know, what it takes to kind of get to that end result. And, and I really people really like it. I mean, I’ve gotten a lot of great emails, at Indy Market, my son was laughing because a lot of people recognize me from the show. You know, they saw my name and they’re like, oh, we listen to your show and, and, artists like it because it’s artists to artists, you know.

Nocona Burgess 00:22:33  And so a lot of people like the fact that it’s one artist asking another artist and they love kind of the great questions and just some of the conversations. So like for tonight, I have an artist, you know, she’s just kind of new in the game. She’s having a hard time. She’s just got in a gallery and then the gallery is closing. And so, you know, so it’s kind of just the ups and downs. So we’re going to kind of talk about where she’s at in her career and, and all those types of things. And I’ve talked to artists, you know, just yeah, you know, famous artists that have been on the show and, and, talked about their careers and the ups and downs. So, yeah. So it’s a fun show and I learned a lot, you know, like, I’ve had poet on one time and I’m like, you know, how do you make money being a poet? And she explained it and it was like, oh, wow.

Nocona Burgess 00:23:16  You know, and so it’s kind of cool for me to kind of learn and understand how these things work.

Bunny 00:23:20  What’s next? I know you are. Are you headed to Houston for a show? Is that.

Nocona Burgess 00:23:25  Yeah. Yeah. I just spent eight days in, Wyoming, at a show up there. It’s a Western art design, exhibition, which was okay. It was. I don’t I don’t think it was run very well, but my point, my goal was to get up there and land a gallery representation and I did. So I got picked up by Mountain Trails Gallery and they’re out of Jackson Hole, Bozeman and Park City, Utah, which is nice because those are all places I’m not in. And so yeah, so it was good in that aspect that I got business done. And yes, I’m working with the Bryant Museum out of Galveston, but they’re having a big, fundraiser shindig, art auction in Houston. And so, we donate paintings and it’s a 70, 30 split, and then, you know, and those things help you cultivate more collectors so they see you.

Nocona Burgess 00:24:11  I’m always kind of the guest. I’m the the ticket, I guess. So people come and I lecture about Comanches in Texas and Quanah Parker and all that good stuff. And then we have an art auction. So. Yeah. So those things are nice because it helps the museum. And then, you know, I make a little bit of money and kind of spread the word, spread the gospel, and and go from there. And. Yeah. So I have a full schedule.

Bunny 00:24:34  And how, we’ll we’ll post a link to that event. I’m just so that folks, if they’re in that neck of the woods, they can find you. I do I have to ask because we are talking about New Mexico. How did you end up here in particular? What?

Speaker 3 00:24:53  Well, I.

Nocona Burgess 00:24:54  Had an uncle and aunt that lived in Albuquerque, and so we’d always come out. It’s my dad’s uncle, and we’d always come out. And then, I was always, you know, really close with my cousin Eric.

Nocona Burgess 00:25:04  We were about the same age. He had older brothers and older sisters, and then I was the oldest, and. But me and him kind of hit it off when we were kids in San Carlos, Arizona, and. But my uncle and aunt lived here, so we’d come out and visit quite a bit. I always love New Mexico and, you know, historically, it’s a Comanche, place, but I just was, you know, I was going to architecture school at the University of Oklahoma. I came out one summer to just kind of hang out and check it out. And one thing led to another. I had already had, you know, all my credits and stuff from there. And then I spent like a semester. Two semesters or three semesters at Iaia. I didn’t know it existed, and I thought, this is kind of cool. I’m going to take some classes. initially I was just going to take a break from architecture to go and take a semester, but I ended up taking three, and I got an associate’s degree, and then I went to, UNM.

Nocona Burgess 00:25:53  So I ended up kind of just staying and kind of, you know, pursuing the art. But it still took a while to kind of get going. You know, I went to UNM and, and, worked on my degree there, but I started working in the casino industry, but so it took a while for me to kind of finally get, get aligned in the art, you know, and, but, you know, I guess it happens when it’s supposed to happen.

Bunny 00:26:16  So it does.

Nocona Burgess 00:26:18  It does. And I’ve I’ve been here since, 1990, you know, minus two years. I went to Oklahoma. I’ve been here since 1990, so. Wow. So. And I’m not going anywhere.

Bunny 00:26:30  I feel the same way. I feel exactly the same, and I, There’s so much, so much more we could talk about. but I know we’ve used up a lot of your time. You got to get to work and, like, a minute, so. And I do, too.

Bunny 00:26:45  But, Nocona, thank you so much for being here. I wanted to talk more about your. I mean, I know you use historical figures, but your animals are amazing. I’m just going to tell folks to go to your website, take a look at the work, and then, follow this guy who I really admire, who’s doing great work and also giving a lot back to his community. So thank you to Kona. Oh, by the way, he he’s donates pieces to the Cancer Foundation, which of course is my great love. So I have to give you a big shout out for being so generous.

Nocona Burgess 00:27:17  And as far as the animals, they’re, I always say they’re animals in my life. They’re the animals that I observed. You know, we live out here in Rancho Viejo and there’s a greenbelt, so we get visited by the, the coyotes pretty often, and, it’s just animals that I observed, you know, coyotes, ravens, buffalo. So it’s kind of animals that I’m able to see and study and observe and, you know, and that’s that’s why I paint specific ones kind of all the time.

Nocona Burgess 00:27:46  And roadrunners. And it’s the animals that kind of visit me. So yeah, so they kind of mean something to me. And it’s the ones that I really notice and see all the time. So.

Bunny 00:27:54  Well, I’m coming for one of those roadrunners soon, so. Oh yeah. Okay. Thank you so much Nikola. This is fun.

Nocona Burgess 00:28:01  Yep. Thanks for having me.

Bunny 00:28:04  Thanks to all of you for taking the time to listen to the I Love New Mexico podcast. If you’ve enjoyed this episode, please feel free to share it with your friends on social media, or by texting or messaging or emailing them a copy of the podcast. If you have a New Mexico story that you’d like to share with us, don’t hesitate to reach out. Our email address is I Love New Mexico blog at gmail.com. And we are always, always looking for interesting stories about New Mexico. Subscribe, share and write a review so that we can continue to bring you these stories about the Land of Enchantment. Thank you so.