Podcast Episode 2
About the episode
We couldn’t think of anyone better to share their love for New Mexico arts and culture than the amazing Tania Katan. Although Tania is a newer New Mexico resident (sharing her time between Santa Fe and Phoenix). She already has a great sense about what make this state so wonderful. Tania is an author, playwright and constantly creative person. Her fresh look at what makes New Mexico beautiful will get you inspired to come visit (or maybe move) here!
Links:
Tania’s website
Buy Creative Trespassing
Natalie Goldberg’s Writing Down the Bones
Bunny’s website
Buy Lifesaving Gratitude
Tania Kata
Tania Katan is a powerhouse, a dynamic force of nature who co-created the viral empowerment campaign #ItWasNeverADress. Her unconventional way of formulating ideas led to the groundbreaking bestseller, Creative Trespassing: How to Put the Spark and Joy Back into Your Work and Life (Penguin Random House, February 2019). A potent keynote speaker, Katan is highly sought after to teach both people and companies of all stripes how to generate imaginative innovations and breakthroughs. Some of the organizations that have been impacted by her talks include Fortune 500 companies, leading tech firms, universities, and major conferences including: CiscoLive!, Expedia, S.H.E. Summit, Amazon, Talks at Google, Business of Software, Uber, Etsy, Humana, TEDx and Comedy Central Stage.
Episode Transcript
Bunny: 0:10
Welcome to the, I Love New Mexico podcast where we are having some fun , telling and listening to new Mexico’s stories. Our goal here is just to hear some stories and to talk about what an incredible place New Mexico is to hang out and live in whether you’re new or you’ve been here all your life. Your family’s been here for 400 years, which is how some of my friends are, but our guest today is the amazing Tania Katan. She is the author of the best selling , Creative Trespassing, but she’s also a part-time resident of New Mexico. So welcome, Tania. I’m so excited that you’re here.
Tania: 0:57
Thanks for having me Bunny. I love you. I love Santa Fe. I love New Mexico and I don’t get any kickback from the city or state or government for saying that.
Bunny: 1:11
<laugh> Me neither. Me neither . I’m really, I think it’ll be really fun to talk to you because you are , you moved here during the pandemic, right? I mean, you’ve gotta bought a house here during the pandemic. And I have, because I sell real estate, I have like four different clients who did that and it’s, I think that’s gotta be tricky. So I’m curious that , you know, we , I’m curious to know first, why you chose here and how, how was that to move somewhere completely different?
Tania: 1:46
Well, so we split our time between Phoenix, Arizona, and now Santa Fe . And at first for years we’d been coming to Santa Fe. We just loved it, especially as , the nations this summer there. I don’t know if you’re familiar with this, but you know, they’re like, you know , we could , you could fry an egg on the sidewalk. They should literally just say, you can fry your brain for free because we’re not selling marijuana legally, cuz it gets you high, but not in a good way being in that amount of heat, it’s just not okay for the human body. So for years we’ve been coming to Santa Fe in the summertime to get away from the heat and also high desert people don’t know. I actually I’m loathed to say this out loud cuz now I don’t want more people moving to Santa Fe, but the high desert, it’s kind of like you get the east coast and the west coast slammed together in the best possible way and nature and seasons and in environment. So for years we thought, well, you know what, we’ll get it like a little Pied-à-terre in Santa Fe while we have sort of a larger home for us and our dog in Phoenix and then the pandemic hit and we just kind of shifted the paradigm and we decided, okay, we’ll keep a small place in Phoenix. And then, you know, we’ll get a place in Santa Fe and , yeah, we came at the worst possible time because real estate was at an all time high and our budget was at an all time low. And we kept being shown places that were very, very, very expensive and needed a lot of work. And 10 people had already put like cash offers on them. But the good news about Santa Fe and one thing I know, you know, Bunny, in real estate is we had beautiful relationships with our real estate agents Joshua, Melissa. And also if you are on the ground in Santa Fe in two seconds, if you are a kind goodhearted person, you will meet every person you need to meet for the rest of your lives. Everyone has a story to tell they don’t, they’re not afraid to tell you their story, even if they’re, you know, the plumber working on your pipes, even if you know like your car broke down and they’re helping you fix it. Like if you are generous enough with who you are and what you’re about, there are people who will meet you and match you in Santa Fe. And we, we found that with house, you know, house looking and , um, the place we ended up being lucky enough to, to, I guess kind of be a part of the legacy of this home because artists owned it before and an artist inherited it. And um, we are continuing that lineage of artists.
Bunny: 4:23
So, and I wanna say , um, and maybe you already, when you and I were doing our, so you, when we , you and I were doing our coaching intensive where I got to the paradise of coming up for four hours, three days in a row and hanging out and, and talking it was in the spring and you said I’ve never really lived in places that had distinct seasons. If I remember correctly, and you said this spring , there were things coming up, you know, little flowers showing up out in your front , in the , um, flower bed, out front. And you’re like, this is so exciting to , you know, we had winter. I mean, we really had winter, which is what happens, where we live and , and then we have this amazing springtime and I thought it was so cool that you were so excited about living somewhere where there were four seasons.
Tania: 5:18
Yeah, for the first six years of my life was New York then got out. So, you know, I had a couple winters, some tobogganing, if you will. And some, you know, closed school days and then grew up in Arizona, which is like one and a half seasons. It’s like, oh , and then, ah , you know, that’s really the verbal like conveyance of seasons there. And then here are two things that were astounding to me that I didn’t expect in Santa Fe. Obviously I knew conceptually there were seasons here, but again, being in high desert, the desert vegetation sort of fools you sometimes especially coming from Arizona where there are crossover plants and animals and things like that. So yes, the season’s delightful, but what was more astounding to me, and why we chose to be here part-time is because nature works in chorus with commerce here, right? Like in Phoenix, unfortunately , the city , um, this and has decided that Phoenix is a movie set. That’s subject to being torn down whenever they want, like schools that we grew up in, torn down, architecture, torn down and things are sort of slopped up that seem to be there for only a short period of time. So it’s almost like we were the erasure of desert, you know, all the malls all the enclosed spaces with air condition, as opposed to Tucson, for example, that I think is a really good city of working with environment. And so we long to live in a place where, you know, nature, coexisted, where you could walk out your door and both be in nature and get a coffee or go to the best restaurant that you ever gone to. That they’re not isolated incidents. And to me, that was really special and is special about Santa Fe. And also, I think with Santa Fe, <laugh> , there’s nowhere to hide, like literally the landscape lends itself to an openness and it’s pretty stark. And also like, think about what people do here for a living. You know, it’s not, there’s no hustle and bustle here, right? It’s like you’re either independently wealthy , um, or about to die, or a combination of the two, or you’re one of the lucky few who has a job in the art sector, in hospitality, in, you know, and , um, and you’re hustling cuz it ain’t cheap to live here. I’ll tell you that much. There’s this wonderful sense though. Not like, you know, I lived in LA or Phoenix where you’re literally driving as fast as you can. There’s four lane high, right? The , this place is SU such a Labrinth of streets of curvy windy roads and curvy windy people. And, you know, getting from A to B means telling seven stories, listening to 10 and then deciding to just go to coffee with someone you just met, you know, <laugh> and um, I think that that, that charm allows you to be who you are. I mean the city different sort of champions like, Hey, bring it all, bring your flaws, your scars, your weirdness, your cultural backgrounds, bring your diversity for real. And we are here to allow that space for you to shine. And , that is both delightful and also arresting when you’ve been in places where you’re surrounded and enclosed architecture and systems and rigid ways of being here. You literally <laugh> are forced, whether you’re driving down a street that you thought went one way and now goes another to , to , to explore the expansive space. And I think explore the expanse of who we are , um, as individuals and communities. That’s what I feel. So I feel wonderfully exposed and open to, to learning more than I ever thought I’d wanna learn at this point in my life.
Bunny: 9:06
That’s what’s so cool. In fact, I used to, you know, my son went to school in Austin, went to university of Texas and I always thought the heck with keep Austin weird. I’m like , keep New Mexico weird. Let’s not, you know, let’s not get so I just don’t want it to change. I want everybody to be allowed to , um, be exactly who they are and who they wanna be. And I, you know, I mean, there’s always, always that little bit of friction between the very, you know, folks whose families have been here for 300 years and people who are newcomers. But, but what I find is that overall there’s a pretty broad acceptance of anybody who’s a little different or a lot different.
Tania: 9:56
Well, and you have families who’ve been here for thousands of years and those families who’ve been here for 300 years have colonized and taken stolen the land. So, you know, there’s , there’s friction on different levels too, you know, I’m just saying that there’s, there’s , there’s different frictions. And , and also part of the impetus for coming here and people we had met over the years were leaders in arts organizations. So to me, you know, I always want to live in a place where arts and culture are the foundation of being as opposed to something that’s not funded or pushed to the side. So for years we knew Mary Scully, the curator of the New Mexico museum of art, we knew and know , Andrea Hanley , who is a curator at the wheel, right . And we knew the executive director, Sid Kahn , who, who of site Santa Fe , creative Santa Fe, and now the new executive directors Rockman like. So, so I guess my, my point is, is that frictions are awesome. It means that we’re alive. You know, tensions are fantastic. If, if the underpinnings of those are framed within safe places to have conversations about what that means about what it means to come together as diverse and wild and wonderful humans. And so to me, the arts organizations here site Santa Fe, it’s like world class . They just did a show by Jeff Jeffrey Gibson . You know, like artists who are at the forefront and activists who are at the forefront of leading these conversations about tensions and about creating futures that include everyone are, are being, are coming to Santa Fe to show their art and to share these conversations and to invite those of us who are lucky enough to spend time in. So I, I think we’re in a really cool place because it it’s the only small town I know of in , in the United States, that’s wildly liberal. And also again, champions the arts and culture and culture is a plural .
Bunny: 12:00
Well, to , to simplify that a little bit is, I mean, you’re , you’re sort of talking about art outside of you, but what’s it like to be an artist working? I mean, I’ve seen your office, you get to look at the mountains, you, you have , you live in this pretty nurturing environment. How does, is it easier here?
Tania: 12:19
<laugh> Well, so yeah, I’m a writer by trade and training , you know, an author and playwright and also a public speaker, but everything I do the foundation of it is writing. And , my office is it’s small and it has windows that looks out this little garden. It’s not big, but it feels big. And we have like a lilacs and lilys and things that don’t start with L I don’t, you know , <laugh> and the other day I was looking outside at the green and the mountains, and whoever was smart enough to plan this community, buried all the wires underneath the ground. So I, we can look at the mountains and the vegetation unencumbered by the anthrop scene <laugh> anyway, so I’m looking and I’m like, I’m in Eden. And most of the time, quite frankly, you know, how I feel bunny , this is the hard part actually about getting, actually getting work done is I feel like we got the keys to a really great Airbnb. And then the owners were like , um, where you just take it. And I’m like, what? Because it’s so pretty . So pretty here. And, and, and every day , you know, I try to walk near the Plaza on Alameda , um, because I love hearing, you know, the church bells of St . Francis ring and, and feeling like I’m both here and in Europe or, or here in you are in Spain, you know? So anyway, I love, I love it here, so it’s, it’s hard to get work done, but it’s inspiring simultaneously.
Johanna: 13:49
It’s so funny. Because obviously I agree with you. We both do, obviously that it’s so beautiful here, but I had family come from Kansas that had never been to New Mexico. And, you know, they were like, how could artists be inspired here? How could Georgia O’Keeffe have like, loved living here? It’s just brown and everything is just brown and like dry. I was like, you don’t get it. These people don’t get it. So it’s really, they’re missing out. It’s just so much beauty.
Tania: 14:17
Yeah. It’s really interesting that you say that Johanna, because we what you notice is the subtleties of all the greens, the subtleties of all the brown . So like in our neighborhood, you know, pen tree green is very different than like it Russian Sage , the , the green and purple of that, or like just like beautiful weeds and bushes. I don’t know the names of, but there’s like a chalky green versus, you know, like an evergreen green, like so many shades of that. And I think that, that if, if people want to take the time, time to see the world around them, as extraordinary, even if that’s noticing the variation of shades of brown or green, then they will see magic wherever they dare to go. And if they don’t, then they won’t see it anywhere. They go, regardless of where they are geographically.
Bunny: 15:11
So, we went to a dinner at a neighbor’s house the other night, and the daughter took me outside and she said, we have this really beautiful orange weed growing this weed, growing here that has these adorable little orange flowers on it. And I said, well, some people in New Mexico call that a wildflower. And some people call it a weed and we don’t care what you call it, because both of them are valuable in their own way. But I thought it was, I thought it was hilarious that she said, oh, we have these weeds, but we’re gonna leave them because they have these orange flowers. And I was like, well, or it could be a wildflower, you know you , but you’re right. If you, you , the cool thing about here is that you do have to, it’s not so obvious. It’s not like in your face, you gotta take time, slow down. I don’t know about you, but when I come over the hill from Albuquerque at up , when I come over Labojada hill and you see the mountains in front of you and the city spread out , I think that my blood pressure goes down about 15 points.
Tania: 16:10
Yes. Without any hesitation literally opening our door in the morning. You know, it’s funny when we first landed here, we were staying with a friend and, and everything. We were like, oh my God, it’s so pretty. It’s so pretty. This is so pretty. That’s so pretty. And she’s like, that might wear off. It has not worn off yet. And I don’t anticipate it wearing off because literally I’m , uh, we have a cherry tree . Oh , I’ve never had a cherry tree. We have raspberries, we’ve got strawberries. Like, and every once in a while, I’m just walking outside. And I see that that green patch is like, popped out this beautiful little piece of nature’s candy that I pop in my pile and eat. And so I don’t, <laugh> , I , I mean, it’s all one it’s all surprising and sort of unfolding right in front of us . And again , every human being that we have come in contact with, except for a few people at a local coffee , coffee shop, which I won’t name has been, they’ve been like the most open, delightful kind in a deep way that I’ve never experienced living in big cities before. And again, I don’t know if that’s specific to New Mexico and or Santa Fe, but we’ve been the recipient of a lot of love and, and, you know, also the purveyors of love as well. We’re not sex workers. <laugh> I didn’t mean like that. I just meant like, you know, like in a kind , um, community oriented way, <laugh> it?
Johanna: 17:49
It kind of, I was gonna bring up too, you know, as someone, myself and the gay community and you as well, like this is one Santa Fe is one of the few cities in the country. I haven’t traveled nearly as much as you have, but, or as other people, but it’s one of the few cities where I do feel safe and I do feel like I can be open and be myself. Even some other cities in New Mexico aren’t like that. But for the most part, it is. But Santa Fe, for sure, I feel like, you know, I’m not alone or I’m not gonna be singled out. So did you find that as well? Yeah.
Tania: 18:24
I’m so glad you brought that up because I totally forgot. So my wife and I have been together 20 years, we got married and , and I’m putting married in air quotes , in 2006 in Phoenix. And they’re only in air quotes because people were like, oh , it wasn’t legal, but we had a caterer. So it was legal. Um, and we had like, you know, we had a 150 people. We did it, we did like a sort of proper one . It was real in two , it was real. It was real. So then the law caught up with how people actually live. And , um, around 2000, I don’t even know I’m gonna say 2016, 15 ish, Angela, my wife was giving a talk. She’s a professor of art and an artist at the New Mexico museum book of art. And we’re like, oh, it’s legal now. Let’s just like , you know , pop into like the, a city office and get married. And we’ve, we had two , you know, friends here. So we’re , we’re like, will you be our witnesses? And they’re like, yeah. And what was astounding to us quite frankly, is had we gotten married in Phoenix, legally, and with a judge, we were scared that they would’ve either kind of moved us through as if we were going through a , a drive through at McDonald’s and they were slightly irritated. Um , or that the fact that we were and getting married, wouldn’t be favorable to them. So they might be unfavorable to us here. We didn’t have any expectations we walked in. And the judge, which we thought would just be like, okay, get married. She would gave like the most beautiful speech about, you know, love and our commitment to each other. And this is a really like, and we started crying. We didn’t expect it to be such a loving kind experience through , uh, like a government establishment and, and also for the person who, who officially married us to actually care about our union and, and believe that it is important as a couple, as people who were deciding to be a part of a New Mexico community. And it was the best official marriage ever , um, you know, fast forward who , yeah. Anyway, so it was just like, it was, it was beautiful. Unexpected.
Johanna: 20:33
I love that story. Thank you for sharing that.
Bunny: 20:35
I did to o. It made me cry.
Tania: 20:36
A h < laugh> we didn’t expect i t. It was just really a bonus, so.
Bunny: 20:41
Well, so , you keep talking about stuff, things that are unexpected, have you traveled anywhere in the state? Cuz I know we talked about some day trips. We had dinner at your house. Yeah . And you’re like, oh we gotta do this day trip. Have you traveled anywhere that you went? What that’s so.
Tania: 20:56
Cool. Well, I think we’re just kind of getting our footing so far. However we did go to not Madrid, but Madrid, the other Madrid. Yes . We went to Madrid last year with Jock and Louise with some friends who are also part of the greater New Mexico community and for gay pride. And it was the best gay pride I’ve ever been to. It was lit . So Madrid is a teeny tiny town created by and for artists and funky thinkers and weirdos in the best possible way. And so we went to , to gay pride and it was the float consisted of a truck with a bed on it. And five people dancing and they would drive up and down. They’d wait 15 minutes to gather some more audience and they <laugh> , they drive back and forth the main strip and um, and they were wonderful. And I just wanted to jump on the float and dance. So that was like, that was a really fun , uh, trip that we’ve we’ve taken. But we are just at the beginning of exploring , uh, greater New Mexico. I mean, I’ve done a lot of trips. Again. We , we split our time between here and Phoenix and we like driving the drive love. So we’ve driven through many cities , uh, a lot. But we’ll, we’ll look forward to staying. Yeah.
Bunny: 22:20
So have you done that drive where you go through Zuni? Have you done the , like where you go by El Morro and you go through Zuni? Um , which freeway ? It’s it’s a little, it’s a little, I , I don’t , I mean, I don’t know how you go to Phoenix. Yeah . But um, if you go to grants and then you go south, it’s actually a little past , maybe it’s a little anyway. You’d have to look on the map. It’s either right before grants or right after then you drive down through the mountains to the, to Zuni, which is of course the town that is the base of the Zuni Pueblo. But El Morro is in inscription rock and it’s where people like… U h, o h, oh my gosh. Why can’t I think, listen to me, I I’m like i t’s a history major.
Tania: 23:04
It’s either Crocodile Dundee and Gandhi…
Bunny: 23:09
Who gave their 16 , 15 hundreds carved their names on the rock. Oh . And then like high school kids carved their names on rock and there are , and , and , and so it’s I’ll send you a picture or not , but that’s one place that next time you drive to Phoenix, it’s a little longer, but wow.
Tania: 23:28
Yeah, because I’m typically, I’m not gonna lie about that because we’re typically going to Phoenix to , to work and to get there quickly. We , we take , you know, it’s anything that starts with a 40 , um, or 25 or a 10, that’s it <laugh> , but I, I would love to stop and I hope that like in the postscript or you know, that there are all these places we talked about so that , um, we can visit them . I love because you’re such a wealth of knowledge being here for your a lot of years and not just being here, buddy , but , but like knowing everybody, being a convener of community member , um, and all that jazz, I , I feel like, you know, it’s funny cuz we were talking about restaurants and you , you asked about, you know, oh what restaurants, I feel like you introduced me to, to several places that I really hadn’t been to. I mean , uh, market steer hadn’t been to, I’ve just been to Creto . Yes Creto um, yeah. Anyway , um, and then open kitchen, which isn’t a restaurant, but boy, how did you eat as if you’ve, you know, sat down at a restaurant, unbuttoned your pants and got to work.
Bunny: 24:40
It is where we got to meet. Somebody who’s also gonna be a podcast guest. Cheryl Jameson, who is , um, a, also somebody who moved here and is our friend, the James Beard award, winning cookbook writer. Holy mackerel . That was fun. I keep hope . I think I’ll ask her when we record her podcast, if she’ll invite us out for dinner, because where does she go? I mean, people there either are really good eaters or really great cooks.
Tania: 25:09
Where does she go for dinner? I’m curious because that would be worth knowing.
Bunny: 25:14
Oh no, no I, well, that’s what we’ll ask her. Okay . I see all the time that she goes, I mean, she goes everywhere, but I wanna go have dinner at her place into soca where she and her husband renovated a barn. So that’s what they live in. But what about your favorites?
Tania: 25:35
My favorites. Well, I am a good eater. First of all, we have an unfair advantage here. We’ve got a great farmer’s market and I got a kitchen. So they’re , you know, cooking is really nice and because weather’s so beautiful, we can eat outside. I have a grill and blah, blah, but I would say that for new Mexican food, LaRoza all of the way I said it. I meant it. You could fight with me about it afterwards. And then our , our favorite favorite go-to like, whenever somebody’s coming to town is Sweet Water Harvest.
Bunny: 26:06
Oh yeah.
Tania: 26:06
I Know because it’s okay. Look, we’re not vegetarian it’s but it’s vegetarian. One of us is allergic to wheat and it’s all gluten free . And here’s the trickery with gluten free being with somebody who’s gluten free . It’s like as a non gluten-free I wanna eat all the things and, and not question whether or not there’s gluten in it. I just want it to be good and not being a vegetarian. I just want all the vegetables to be good and satisfying. And they have some meat dishes there. It’s not completely vegetarian. But it’s just, it feels fresh and yummy sort of Asian influenced and also influenced by whatever’s growing at that time. And it’s, it’s our yummies. So I’d say those are like, those are our go-tos for new Mexican food and for , um, not new Mexican food.
Bunny: 26:55
And I would tell, you know, people who are listening, who are, who are internally saying , no, no, you gotta go to the chef. I had a cousin Who was here…
Tania: 27:02
…but are they the sister restaurant?
Bunny: 27:04
Yeah. They’re sister. It’s a sister restaurant. So yeah , a hundred years ago when I lived in Albuquerque , uh, my friend said, we’re gonna go to , and we had no money. Of course I had little kids had no money. And a friend of mine said, we’re gonna go to Santa Fe and eat great food. And I said, I keep hearing, we should go to the she . And then I kind of went because I knew we couldn’t afford it. And she said, well , go to LA Choza, everything is less expensive. It’s the exact same menu.
Tania: 27:33
Yeah. And it’s never, so now , and it’s never there’s no, well, not never. There were lines around the place, but there to go. Operation is so smooth and so lovely. Like , we moved during the pandemic, you know, when we were spending our most time here and there was no sitting , there was no inside dining and they were just like, you phone that order in, you picked it up, you ate like a queen or king or queen queen- king.
Bunny: 28:00
And they have the best margaritas.
Tania: 28:04
Oh, they were, yeah, they were , I , you know, I know everybody’s like, oh the best Mar Marias, if there’s tequila and something like limey , it’s awesome. Like I don’t know how, how like the best Maritas is when you’re in the best mood to drink them , I think. And not so , and not too sugary and not too sugary.
Johanna: 28:23
<laugh> Del Charro still has my favorite margaritas.
Tania: 28:26
Oh , I’ve read about, I’ve never been to Del Charro. I know I pass it all the time. Oh , okay. I’m going,
Bunny: 28:31
They serve it with a sidecar.
Johanna: 28:34
I think that might be why it’s my favorite. Cuz if you feel like you get more, you get to refill it. They’re really good too .
Tania: 28:39
I feel like this podcast lends itself to sponsorships and then what you do is you give the guest like, oh a hundred dollars gift card to Del Charro or like oh, $50 to the shows . So I look forward to being a guest again when sponsorship has come in and I can drink free margaritas for a year.
Johanna: 28:59
Sounds like a plan.
Bunny: 29:02
We should Probably record one in the middle of drinking margaritas at Del Charro.
Tania: 29:07
I would totally do a drunk podcast with you guys.
Bunny: 29:11
I would too .
Tania: 29:13
In fact I’m doing it now .
Bunny: 29:24
So have you read, we always wanna ask if you , have you read any books by New Mexico authors or
Tania: 29:31
Yeah, there’s an author named Bunny Terry and it’s a book like lifesaving gratitude about enduring cancer that I’m really connected to. <laugh> actually, you know what, let the truth be known. The reason bunny and I met through books. Right? So , if you’re talking about people based in New Mexico writing, then I’d say that we met in the best possible way we exchanged books. And to me, especially with memoir, that’s the best way, the most comprehensive way to get to know someone whether you like it or not. You’ll learn a lot about a person, but um, and I know Bunny, your book was just awarded a special award for you being a New Mexico writer and also this book coming from you. And what was that award.
Bunny: 30:23
I got in the best of Santa Fe competition for books written by New Mexico authors. I was number three behind two of the coolest books ever written. One, one is a book by James McGrath. He wrote the autobio or God , the , the biography of Tony Hillerman. And then there is a young Navajo writer who did this really cool pilgrimage, where he ran from the Fort Sumner , the Bosque Redondo, where they housed Navajos for a couple years, kit, Carson moved him off the reservation, they housed them down there and then they took him back the long walk back to the Navajo reservation, you know, it was during some pretty ugly times in American history and this guy did a run like he ran from and I haven’t read the book, but I keep reading reviews thinking why I don’t know in that book. And that was number two. And then my little book was number three.
Tania: 31:23
Woo . Congratulations.
Bunny: 31:25
So great company.
Tania: 31:26
Yeah, that’s awesome. And, and clearly there , you know, what is really exciting about New Mexico and Santa Fe specifically? Just like there’s a , a deep history of, of art , visual artists who come from here. Y.ou know, obviously Georgia , Keith , Agnes, Martin, Lynn , whole , everybody, lots of people. So is true with writers and and I feel like as a writer that residue, that energy that’s kind of left behind and present and future of, of writers whether we’re conscious of it or not is, is really in our, in our bodies when we, when we come to Santa Fe. So yeah. Yeah. I mean, Natalie Goldberg, I love she, you know, for I taught memoir writing for, for several years , in a program I started with , uh, Angela in Italy and you know, my, one of my Bibles has always been writing down the bones , uh, by Natalie Goldberg . Oh yes. And you know it’s such a foundational tool for beginning writers and then writers who consider themselves professional, who get stuck and need to get unstuck. And , anyway, so I hope to run into her at sprouts at.
Bunny: 32:38
Some point. Well, not recently, but I, at one point went to a reading like out where McCumber gardens is. She did a reading of a book. She did some book like struck by lightning or something that was about memoir writing. And I went out there and I sort of, I was so fan-girling I just fawned over her. I said , I , and she was very nice. She said, thank you so much next <laugh> because there was this huge line of people who wanted her signature on their book <laugh> but she’s amazing. And she wrote that great book, banana rose, she wrote this piece of fiction about, and you , and it was, it seemed quite autobiographical. It seems sort of memoirs, but anyway, there are artists everywhere and that’s the cool thing everybody’s accessible and everybody’s welcome. So I don’t know . That’s what I love about New Mexico. And I love that you’re here part of the time.
Tania: 33:32
Me too. Thank you. Yeah, me too. So if you see me on the mean streets of Santa Fe , just say, Hey, I’m literally the person walk. I walk everywhere. I’m wearing earphones. I have spiky hair and I’m smiling because I’m happy that I have the privilege to have a body that works to be in the beautiful natural environment and to be surrounded by like cool, weird different in air quotes, human beings, just like I am <laugh> so say hi, but don’t beep violently. It really freaks me out. <laugh>
Bunny: 34:08
Well, stick around soon. We’ll be doing the margarita tour. Go ahead, Johanna. I’m sorry.
Johanna: 34:14
Oh, I just wanna say, well, we’re happy that, that you’re a New Mexican now. You’re official. You’re a New Mexican . You’re a Santa Fean , even if it’s only part-time, but we’re happy you’re here. And , and thank you for being on the show with us.
Tania: 34:25
Total pleasure. Can’t wait to drink with you guys. <laugh>
Bunny: 34:30
Since , since all we love you , take care.
Tania: 34:33
Love you. Bye.